@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @ssolie Quote: ssolie wrote: @Seehund Is this just one last "See everybody, I was right!" or is it a sincere effort to invoke change? I think over the years and the countless diatribes I know I can't tell when you are trying to help or not. That's the trouble with an overly aggressive campaign. What makes what he is doing "overly agressive" in your mind?

I can't speak for ssolie, but for me it's that the "triennial" up in the first post is shy about 9-10 times per year. If you scan the forums you'll find that Seehund posts almost exclusively in the "Why don't they port AmigaOS to the xxx platform" threads. In almost every one of those threads, he decries what he sees as the "Eyetech-only, hardware-killing" AmigaOne Partners contract. It gets a little irritating after several years to hear the same argument repeated at least once a month, stirring up the same hornets.

_________________
Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

@Seehund

Currently, there's only one existing platform on the entire planet that has even the slightest chance of seeing AmigaOS4 in the near future.

First, remember that the only current Amiga-branded OS is PowerPC-only, due to the "hardware-killing" contract, and logistical problems porting to x86. That said:

1. We have yet to see -any- indication that A-Cube has been negotiating with AInc. so we can't count on Sam (and it isn't currently available, anyway.)
2. Troika and ACK are currently no-shows (Adam, I'm still a supporter if it works out).
3. The history between AInc and Genesi is well known, so Efika is most likely out of the question.
4. There are no new PowerPC Macs, and Apple couldn't give two figs about the old ones.
5. AFAWK, OS4 won't work on POWER (or it's not in Hyperion's contract), so forget the IBM workstations.
6. XBox 360 and Wii are completely closed, with no indication of 'parental' approval of ports of other OSes.
7. Sony isn't exactly bending over backwards to get anything else -but- Linux on the PS3.
8. Most of the industrial PPC SBCs are not designed to be desktop friendly.

That leaves us with the only available platform that is ready for OS4 - classic Amigas with PPC upgrades. Even if the ACK boards eventually show up, I don't think that these sales will be enough to convince AInc management (we're talking the VCs, here, not Mc-Moss) that your petition has any merit. In fact, your petition has had as much effect on the OS4 situation as has the actual hardware from BPlan and Genesi - i.e. none.

_________________
Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

@syrtran

Quote:

I can't speak for ssolie, but for me it's that the "triennial" up in the first post is shy about 9-10 times per year. If you scan the forums you'll find that Seehund posts almost exclusively in the "Why don't they port AmigaOS to the xxx platform" threads. In almost every one of those threads, he decries what he sees as the "Eyetech-only, hardware-killing" AmigaOne Partners contract. It gets a little irritating after several years to hear the same argument repeated at least once a month, stirring up the same hornets.

I hear what you are saying in a way, and certainly hearing that for years would be irritating.

But I would submit that if Seehund's "activism" makes it one iota more likely that Amiga moves its a** and does things finally to get more hardware out there it was probably worth it. To his credit he is asking people to not sign the petition more than once. That he will remove signatures with vulgar content, which would reduce the amount of sigs overall is also a sign of fairness in what he is trying to do. He seems to want to be balanced at least in what he is trying to present to Amiga.

And then there are the reasons for this situation. Seehund did not create them. Amiga certainly bears much more of a burden for the state of things and the long long time its been at that state.

Maybe if I had an AmigaOne since 2003 like some folks here and having read such things over and over (and over....) I'd be like "enough already!" too. And try to enjoy what I have for as much as I can. I certainly see where that comes from.

But if you are someone like me I don't have such a box. Someone on here is looking to sell one which does not appear to happen often and already it seems that someone with like 2 or 3 other boxes is as interested in it as I am. Thats a ridiculous situation. New guys can't get in the door as users. Guys around for a while want spare boxes if they can be gotten at the right price.

I think someone can be a realist but still decide to spend their energy in a positive way. I don't think there is much of any likelihood in its success but I'd rather applaud Seehund for trying, even if it is a tired, depressing, frustrating, beaten to death, "stirring up the same hornets" post. Simply because its Amiga ultimately that seems to be the one most causing the situation. Anyone willing to spend time on trying to change that I think we as community members should try to get behind.

I guess I wish there were more "atta-boy"s, "good show"s, "thanks for the perseverance" type posts in response to these types of things than Amiga having reduced this community to what instead often greets such continued efforts.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback
Quote:

I guess I wish there were more "atta-boy"s, "good show"s, "thanks for the perseverance" type posts in response to these types of things than Amiga having reduced this community to what instead often greets such continued efforts.

When you throw temper tantrums about something for years on end I don't think you should expect people to suddenly become your buddy and say "atta-boy" and give you a pat on the back.

The same thing happens to many activists that go over the top. After a while people just start ignoring everything they say. Add in an ample amount of gloating and you aren't going to be getting much support no matter how right you are. Such an image problem for an activist is fixable but given the title of the thread I doubt that will ever happen.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

This petition is not going to make any difference. I don't think Amiga Inc. even cares.

I do have a hunch that Amiga Inc. is back on the ropes as far as money goes. Just a feeling. This could be good for us. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Yogi

Last edited by Yogi27 on 23-Feb-2007 at 09:23 AM.
Last edited by Yogi27 on 23-Feb-2007 at 09:22 AM.

This is such an nice effort! Very good to see people wanting things to happend! I love it!.. and everyone on this site should sign up!

The wave of wanting Amiga to become alive again should consern everybody.. Help out the community! :) Let`s fight until the end!


Regards,
Michal

_________________
Regards,
Michal, Amiga user since 1988
amitopia@gmail.com

@fairlanefastback

I understand the frustration, and I do agree with Seehund in principle. The problem I have is that I (and I assume others here) feel that an online petition wasn't/isn't going to change anything. The "compulsory licensing and bundling scheme" was signed long before any of us knew it existed.

I just checked his petition. There's approximately as many signatures as there are the assumed number of A1s/uA1s in existence. If that many people laying down a lot of cold, hard cash didn't get AInc to stop dragging their collective feet, how are a few electrons on the Internet going to change anything?

_________________
Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

To be honest I see no problem in a licensing system. Problem is we dont have one now, as no licenses are being granted! If I were Amiga, Inc I would be saying to Hyperion - yes please convert to whatever machine you think is decent enough to run the os and give us 2% if the sales revenue as some money is better than none.

Mind you if I was Amiga, Inc those $50 tee shirts would have been Cyberdog with a boing ball screen on them... Oh and a few other things would have been different (read EVERYTHING).

Edit: to pre-empt the Cyberdog? WTF? Questions: Cyberdog.net

Last edited by SvenHarvey on 23-Feb-2007 at 12:48 PM.

_________________
Sven Harvey
Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
A1000, A2000, A1500 A500, CDTV, A500+, A600, A4000, A1200, CD32, AT A1200HD, A1-XE

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: @Seehund Seehund, can I change my sig to use also my real name then?

Sure. Now that you have let me know about it, just add your signature+comment again, and I'll delete the old one (#1293).
I can't edit the names or comments as they're displayed on petitiononline.com, I can only delete full entries there.

@All,
I won't prune the entries displayed online until after the week-end when the signatures have been sent off, since the online list is a moving target. Duplicates, spam et c. will remain visible online until then (unless someone gets a stupid idea now and does something spectacular), but of course it has not been and won't be included in the list I send to the recipients.

_________________
Oh, bother.

@syrtran

Quote:

syrtran wrote: @fairlanefastback I can't speak for ssolie, but for me it's that the "triennial" up in the first post is shy about 9-10 times per year. If you scan the forums you'll find that Seehund posts almost exclusively in the "Why don't they port AmigaOS to the xxx platform" threads. In almost every one of those threads, he decries what he sees as the "Eyetech-only, hardware-killing" AmigaOne Partners contract. It gets a little irritating after several years to hear the same argument repeated at least once a month, stirring up the same hornets.

"Triennial" was referring to that I haven't advertised this petition like I'm doing now in a long, long time. And after this round, you'll be happy to know that I probably won't be doing it again.

Of course I have participated in discussions about the issues that are relevant to this much more often! The issues are inevitable and ever present unless something changes, so of course they're discussed by many, and the same arguments are repeated from all sides, and I don't see why I or anybody else in particular shouldn't participate in discussions.

Note that I have started something like TWO (2) threads in total, including this one, on AW.net. Stirring up hornets indeed!

_________________
Oh, bother.

@SvenHarvey

You have an excellent point. You would think Amiga Inc. would want to make some cash. They should let hyperion decide and be done with it, and take a cut off the top. Another thing, if they were a little more supportive of us, we might be a little more supportive of them. Example: We have a growing OS 4 base, then maybe we would be willing to look at Amiga Nowhere (Amiga DE), or whatever hair brain ideas they come up with.

Side Note: We need to hear from Hyperion! Hyperion where are you? Please let us know what is going on, if not just a little.

Yogi

@Seehund

Quote:

Note that I have started something like TWO (2) threads in total, including this one, on AW.net. Stirring up hornets indeed!

I apologize. I didn't intend it to mean that you were intentionally stirring up hornets, I just meant that these threads seem to bring them out (and I have to include myself in that).

_________________
Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

@SvenHarvey

Quote:

SvenHarvey wrote: To be honest I see no problem in a licensing system. Problem is we dont have one now, as no licenses are being granted!

I also don't see a problem in a licensing system.
I see only problems in this licensing system, being compulsory and a prerequisite for ever seeing AmigaOS be developed and sold for any hardware at all.

That no other licensees than Eyetech, the inventor of the scheme, would be approved was hardly surprising, even if there might also be other reasons to why AInc refuses to actually do business.

Quote:

If I were Amiga, Inc I would be saying to Hyperion - yes please convert to whatever machine you think is decent enough to run the os and give us 2% if the sales revenue as some money is better than none.

Heh, that's essentially what the petition is suggesting: Develop and sell AmigaOS for hardware that makes sense! And IF some hardware distributor somewhere would at some time actually become interested in selling HW+OS bundles and/or using an "Amiga" trademark, then he should of course have to buy a licence for that. But AmigaOS should not be made ultimately dependent on the existence of such distributors and exclusively locked to them and the hardware they may offer.
So where's your signature? ;)

_________________
Oh, bother.

@Seehund

Quote:

wice, printed out and sent per regular mail (when they claimed to be located in Snoqualmie)

Back in 03 I happened to be in that area and drove by that building. It was dark and deserted and didn't look like anyone had been there for a while. I was told later by someone that lived nearby in a diner, that they weren't keeping regular hours because they couldn't afford the costs of help, utilities etc.. That didn't set well with me even back then.

@Seehund

I finally signed. I suppose my true position is "sell us OS4 on ANY hardware,
however overpriced, and under whatever objectionable licensing regime," but
your petition seems entirely reasonable. I don't know that the community of
users can do ANYTHING to affect AInc's position or actions, but this is worth
a try. Thanks, and good luck.

@walter

Quote:

I don't know that the community of users can do ANYTHING to affect AInc's position or actions

That may be moot.
Depending on the exact nature of the negotiations, the situation could be quite different than what the users expect.
In fact, the power to affect change may not lie in the hands of Amiga Inc., or Hyperion as such. When one hires legal representation to watch out for their best interests, it is the legal representatives that have the power, and not their clients.
More than once I have heard "look, you hired me/us to handle this, now let us do our job". In essence, the decision making process is often taken out of the hands of the client in this sense. It is important imo, to digest the fact that the two principals here have representation, while the users (who the principals claim are the "great value" here) do not.

I'm not suggesting any course of action here to remedy that. I just want all to consider that fact that the powers that be will be working for the best interests of their clients. Their clients are NOT the current or future user base. As current and future users, you only benefit if this "value" has been communicated to legal representatives successfully, so they can incorporate it in their negotiations. Let's hope they have...

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@ssolie

Quote:

When you throw temper tantrums about something for years on end I don't think you should expect people to suddenly become your buddy and say "atta-boy" and give you a pat on the back.

It worked for me... nowadays I pat a lot on seehund's back

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@The_Editor

Quote:

The_Editor wrote: @Seehund Kudos for persistance Now.... should I sign it ?

Hyperion seem to agree with it nowadays.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@syrtran

Quote:

syrtran wrote: @fairlanefastback I understand the frustration, and I do agree with Seehund in principle. The problem I have is that I (and I assume others here) feel that an online petition wasn't/isn't going to change anything. The "compulsory licensing and bundling scheme" was signed long before any of us knew it existed. I just checked his petition. There's approximately as many signatures as there are the assumed number of A1s/uA1s in existence. If that many people laying down a lot of cold, hard cash didn't get AInc to stop dragging their collective feet, how are a few electrons on the Internet going to change anything?

Those electrons probably won't change a d*mn thing. But I think we need as a community to care more about standing together and less about the likelihood of the success of the effort at this point. Its not like one strategy seems to be working better than another, rather it seems like almost nothing is working. That said why actively discourage someone putting an effort in? Thats all I'm saying.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: That may be moot. Depending on the exact nature of the negotiations, the situation could be quite different than what the users expect. In fact, the power to affect change may not lie in the hands of Amiga Inc., or Hyperion as such. When one hires legal representation to watch out for their best interests, it is the legal representatives that have the power, and not their clients. More than once I have heard "look, you hired me/us to handle this, now let us do our job". In essence, the decision making process is often taken out of the hands of the client in this sense. It is important imo, to digest the fact that the two principals here have representation, while the users (who the principals claim are the "great value" here) do not. I'm not suggesting any course of action here to remedy that. I just want all to consider that fact that the powers that be will be working for the best interests of their clients. Their clients are NOT the current or future user base. As current and future users, you only benefit if this "value" has been communicated to legal representatives successfully, so they can incorporate it in their negotiations. Let's hope they have... #6

We can only see what Amiga Inc. is willing to show us and hear what they are willing to tell us when it comes to what goes on over there. As much as I would like to hope that an empassioned Amiga exec is trying to work out issues quickly but that their lawyers are giving the speech you are describing as a hypothetical, what it comes down to is what are you fighting over in the end? There isn't much to be had monetarily here for a company in the first place. And the only chance at something sizeable would be through successful partnering and collaboration.

This reminds me of a line from When Harry Met Sally:

"Harry Burns: Please, Jess, Marie. Do me a favor, for your own good, put your name in your books right now before they get mixed up and you won't know whose is whose. 'Cause someday, believe it or not, you'll go 15 rounds over who's gonna get this coffee table. This stupid, wagon wheel, Roy Rogers, garage sale COFFEE TABLE."

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Feb-2007 at 11:26 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Feb-2007 at 11:25 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200