@Bodie,

As Bean has posted in another thread on this topic at aworld.net, the linkages between parties who have a vested interest in seeing the OS4/A1 solution succeed are too strong now to stop OS4.

Cool, Mr Bean is an AOS4 supporter ?

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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Don't know about the "actual Mr Bean"! ..But yes, I would like to see OS4.0 come out on the A1 (and so would so many others!).

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OS4.1 + SAM Flex
RIP my A1XE.. that used to have an appetite for batteries!

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PPS: in case you're wondering, I understand that AInc has made a lot of mistakes, but I am more than willing to support them (NO intentions of buying a Pegasos, to clarify my point of view even more! )

Guess what? I bought a Pegasos anyways! Its not as bad as you think.

In the past, I spent more money in the Amiga market after Commodore went bankrupt because I wanted to see the Amiga continue. Nowadays, I just want to see an alternative computer platform that comes close to what I need and would like to use.

The current AmigaOne is for dreamers who can wait for the seasons to change and the Pegasos is for business people who want to work hard to build up a viable market.

There is nothing wrong with being a dreamer, I'm one.. that's why I'm here! I wish everyone who is supporting the Amiga from Hyperion (and those crazy Jedi twins!!!) to the AmigaOne customers the BEST! Good luck to everyone!

I can't wait for OS4 to be finished! And to be able to sit down and take it for a test drive.



But I'm also a business person and I see more potential to build up a market with the Pegasos.



Quote:

PPPS: sorry if this has been answered a lot of time, I'm just new to this board (I used to go to... ehm... the "other one" until I understood it was a bit pro-Genesi / anti-Ainc)

LOL! Stop apologising and stop being afraid of what other people will think of you. You have nothing to be sorry about, OK?





What bothers me in all this is that no one has brought up Gateway and what their involvement in the current market should be.

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Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

After seeing people that I know to be good, honest people get publicly vilified and slandered and, having finally responded to same, seeing my website get hacked for my trouble, even were I to be given a pegasos it would get chopped and ground into tiny, greasy bits.

Integrity must count for far more than money. When I pass on whatever money I will have gathered will then be spread out among other people, but my integrity will forever be mine. It will have my name on it and no other. People will remember me according to my integrity, not according to money.

As for Amiga, Inc., don't count them out just yet.

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Life without the LORD is like a soap bubble without the soap. Without Him, you are nothing.

Darth_X

I realise you are a pegasos advocate and you didn't bring this into the thread yourself but saying the AmigaOne is for dreamers and the current Pegasos is not is a little bit more flamebaity than Id like to see.

Both have an equally viable place in a business plan.

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Turrican3 wrote: @ _Steve_ wrote: Quote: Most other groups rally together and support each other, but this one just seems to get worse each day Can I please ask why?

Well I guess the question to ask is how precipitated the split in the community. Lets assume that it wasn't Amiga as any split would be counter productive. So the split must have been caused by the competitors. In this case it would be genesi and their pegasos/morphOS solution.

Why exactly Genesi is interested in a small market (probably not over 20,000 being optimistic) has always been a question, I suppose any users is better than none so producing a solution for a community without a computer or OS is what they did. Of course Genesi was more of a company created fit a product rather than the other way round. So essentially for Genesi it is a fight for survival. If Pegasos, or MorphOS products fail they have no other products. For them they have no history, or hook to get people to use their product other than what they create.

Anyway what ended up happening was that MorphOS or peg, fans a minority got very vocal about how great it was. Amiga Inc started getting bashed at every opportunity, infact it was almost as if people were specifically digging up dirt on Amiga. Obviously there were people for and against, the problem is that a lot of the information given as always to either side is often given "spin" to give the message that is needed. So what you end up are groups of ill informed people who make illinformed decisions. And are qite fanatic about them.

For Genesi they don't gain anything from having a nice community that plays nice. What products do genesi have out to buy? What income streams do they have? I don't know, but if they can disrupt their competitors income stream then essentially they aren't losing as fast as they might be.

It's also well known that Genesi really wants the Amiga trademarks. By interfering in Amiga's business, in subtle ways they could force them out of business and then buy them up to get the rights with which they could brand their pegasos/morphos solution. And with Amiga out of the picture they essentially would capture the entire market Amiga market.

Again I ask what kind of prize that is? Genesi are plowing a lot of funds into their peg/morphos solution, and I have no idea why, they're piggy backing it on the remains of a long ravaged community, which hasn't been an economical market to be part of for years.

Maybe it's because at this stage the only people in the Amiga market must be suckers so they can be squeezed for all their worth? That wouldn't explain why so much money is being thrown as the Peg/MorphOS project however.

Of course I have no idea how much money is being ptu into the product but I figure they mus have some capital as they always seem to make extravagent gestures whenever possible. But Genesi's financial status is unknown, strange really, how everyone is so happy to talk about Amiga's troubles but never the finacial aspects of Genesi.

Amiga have a product and a target market for their DE product.
Hyperion/Eyetech are advancing the AmigaOne/OS4 mostly love of the platform.
Genesi, why?

My only guess is that Bill and Rachel must be crazy.

I'm afraid the community or at least a part of it is being used to further the goals of Genesi, using rather nasty tactics, which completely ignore any worth of the company or it's product.

Amigans who disagree with this or support Amiga are understandably opposed. And fanatical Amiga supporters vs fanatical Genesi supporters, is like matter and anti-matter. And all it takes in an online community is a small number of people to give it a bad vibe.

And really it's all rather amusing because in the greater scheme of things it's really rather stupid and trivial argument. And the main protagonists look like nothing but a bunch of kids arguing over a broken teddy bear with only 1 eye and missing arms and legs.

So it's not suprising that the Amiga Community are often seen as a joke.

A'inc only really owe between $200k and $400k, the rest is owed to the founders. They have a future visable revenue stream with os4 licences, a trickle of income from products sold on their web site and probably some other potential future income(s) we don't know about.

No way are they going to be forced into bankruptcy in that situation cos they have minimal assets and their debts definitely won't get paid if they do. It seems obvious that the best scenario is for creditors to give them time to pay them back or they won't see their money at all.

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@Entropy

Oups, that's going to feed a flame war ;) (Here or at other sites to 'prove' the 'bias' of this site)

/Björn

The Amiga community is no more a joke than any other community. The polorised aguing seems to be part of human nature, check out other sites/forums. Intel v AMD, nVidiots v ATI fanboys, necromancer v amazon (obscure Diablo II reference), you name it, we'll argue about it.

But when it's company owners and employees digging dirt and slagging off the oposition, that's different.

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Bean wrote: Don't know about the "actual Mr Bean"!

Who's he?

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Join the Amigaworld.net Supporters Scheme and get your Supporter Tag

Okay this thread has potential to get out of hand

Warning

Keep your comments sensible.
If you can't then don't cry about it on another website later, when you find I had to moderated your comment.

That goes for both sides.

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No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

Entropy,

What you've written seems well reasoned. Obviously not everyone will enjoy reading it. My advice is to guard your web site, or whatever on line presence you have?and be prepared for flaming emails.

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Life without the LORD is like a soap bubble without the soap. Without Him, you are nothing.

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DaveP wrote: Darth_X I realise you are a pegasos advocate and you didn't bring this into the thread yourself but saying the AmigaOne is for dreamers and the current Pegasos is not is a little bit more flamebaity than Id like to see. Both have an equally viable place in a business plan.

Great! Let's see that Amiga business plan!

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Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

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Orgin wrote: @Entropy Oups, that's going to feed a flame war ;) (Here or at other sites to 'prove' the 'bias' of this site) /Björn

Well let me just say then that I am in no way affiliated with this site, apart from the fact I post on it. And if I had posted that comment anywhere else, it would most likely be deleted anyway.

Yes I am biased towards Amiga, just like many are biased towards Genesi. I'd be interested in a well written post that explains why the community is split from a genesi fan's point of view.

For instance why they chose Genesi over Amiga and such.

I'm afraid my point of view might be fairly widely held, so the obvious thing to do would be to address the points I raise. The problem is the only adressing that happens usually involves personal insults...

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But I'm also a business person and I see more potential to build up a market with the Pegasos.

No offense, but I'd really be intersested to know what exactly you are basing your assumption on ?

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Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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Billsey wrote: My advice is to guard your web site, or whatever on line presence you have?and be prepared for flaming emails.

Anyone who is running WindowsXP these days needs to protect themselves, there are a lot of viruses being sent around.

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Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

to Darth_X
Quote:

LOL! Stop apologising and stop being afraid of what other people will think of you. You have nothing to be sorry about, OK?

It's not that I'm afraid of what other people think (why should I ), but as I said I understand that since the community is "split" it's quite easy to start a flame, and that was the last thing I wanted.

All I just needed was a "deeper" explaining of what happened during the last few years, when basically the only news source for me about Amiga was their website (mostly during the Escom/GW years).

So I have to thank Entropy for his loooooong post, he may be AInc biased, and so am I : but this doesn't mean that I think "Pegasos is bad" as you said, it's just that I made a choice, and my choice is to support AInc and their upcoming products.

I believe that, as long as it's fine for me if you choose the Genesi way, it should be fine for you too to "understand" me and my decision to follow the AInc way.

That's all!

@Entropy

Quote:

Why exactly Genesi is interested in a small market (probably not over 20,000 being optimistic) has always been a question, I suppose any users is better than none so producing a solution for a community without a computer or OS is what they did. Of course Genesi was more of a company created fit a product rather than the other way round. So essentially for Genesi it is a fight for survival. If Pegasos, or MorphOS products fail they have no other products. For them they have no history, or hook to get people to use their product other than what they create.

I think that Genesi (Thendic back then) had quite an easy start by picking up two half dead projects. MOS that really had no hardware (exept classic PPC) to run on and the Pegasos which needed the last finishing touch (and money).

Why would they wan't to target the Amiga community in the first place?

I think it's rather simple, they wanted to do big amounts of STB and embedded systems.

The PPC is quite good for this aspect, so they bought out the Pegasos design and got an experinced hardware designer as an added bonus. MOS could become usable for their STB project and by taking over that project they even got a (small) developer community, which is a thing I think it is VERY hard to get for a new platform.

Personally I am quite impressed by what BBRV have achieved, but as they are probably reading this:) I must say that there are a lot of things they shouldn't have said in public. Always disliked his behaviour on ANN.

Genesi to me means good ambitious plans, doing something for their community BUT bad business ethics means it's not the systems for me.

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EntilZha wrote: Quote: But I'm also a business person and I see more potential to build up a market with the Pegasos. No offense, but I'd really be intersested to know what exactly you are basing your assumption on ?

I'm sure that once OS4 is released and runs on MORE platforms (A1. PPC mini-itx, cyberstorm, Shark/Ceresendo, and so on...) than MorphOS (which will likely be limited to the pegasos platform due to subsidization) it will compete head on with MAC OSX.

Is that what you would like to hear?

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Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

Quote:

Quote: No offense, but I'd really be intersested to know what exactly you are basing your assumption on ? I'm sure that once OS4 is released and runs on MORE platforms (A1. PPC mini-itx, cyberstorm, Shark/Ceresendo, and so on...) than MorphOS (which will likely be limited to the pegasos platform due to subsidization) it will compete head on with MAC OSX. Is that what you would like to hear?

I think he meant something more like why do you think there is more of a potential market with Pegasos?

I don't think either will become all great conquering giants, and anyone who believes so is just naive. So really all that leaves is a small niche market of enthusiasts.