@tomazkid

Quote:

tomazkid wrote: @T_Bone Quote: How can anything else be justified? "We're making this custom because it's, um, slower, and um, cost more?" We're geeks, and like geeky thingies? Well, my reason for getting this expensive thingie called AmigaOne, was due to getting tired of constantly needing to rebuild my A1200, everytime I wanted to add some new hardware.

Nothing's Geekier than my x86 machines, except of course if it ran AmigaOS natively.

Meanwhile, the Dead Amithlon, continues to climb to dizzying heights with each new x86 CPU release, without having to do much of anything at all to take advantage of the improvement. It makes me want to scream, get on a boat to Austrailia, raid Bernie's house and ransack the place to find a shoebox where he keeps the unreleased Umilator, throw some xhrimp on a barbie, head to China where they don't give a crap about Amiga or Copyright, and hire a bunch of rice farmers turned programmers for $1 an hour to be at my complete will to do whatever I want to it.

Lock your doors Bernie

That's not to say I wouldn't buy an AmigaOne, but I don't see any hardware on the horizon, I checked troika's website recently and I did find a partner listed that sells available hardware, unfortunately it was construction equipment and housing supplies. I'm wondering if that was supposed to be some kind of joke.

Last edited by T_Bone on 13-Jan-2006 at 01:16 PM.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

Holy crap, I re-registered here partly to reply to some of the "custom hardware" and "PPC goooood, x86 baaad" luddite drivel in this thread, and then Dave Haynie comes along and puts me out of a job! Damn you Dave! ;)

OK, now I hope we won't have to see any more of the braindead religious mythology that has plagued and tainted the community for so long, such as:
"We must use only 'different' hardware, just to be 'different'"
"If AmigaOS ran on x86, or even PPC hardware from normal vendors, then it would have to support a gazillion motherboards!!!11"
"Lock-in is good for us!!!11"
"Being locked-in to 'different' hardware is a magic bulletproof vest protecting us from competition, technological obsolescence and piracy! Alternate Realities 'R' Us!!1"
"Raising the 'bar of entry' is a Good Thing, because that will keep the customers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H sheep away!!!1"

Yeah, right...

Quote:

hazydave wrote: So no, it's not my business. But when I see a kid on a train track, and the train's coming, it doesn't have to be my kid -- I'd like to rescue that child. It's not out of envy for that child, it's out of human decency and respect for life, which is similar to the way I feel about Amiga. But I suppose you're just another caveman, and you won't understand any of this. There was a time when Amiga boards attracted only the best and brightest...

If it were only random people on message boards, then who'd care? But the "let's make our own Exclusive Cesspool and keep everybody who's Not Worthy away" mindset seems to have affected some people in charge as well.

Last edited by Seehund on 13-Jan-2006 at 01:53 PM.

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Oh, bother.

@polka.

From what I heard it really was Mitchy :)

You'll hear it all reveald in the Amiga Forever video
materials.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Seehund

I already mentioned the folishness of being different (hardware-wise) just for the sake of it earlier (#157) .
The irony is that we can still be different, we have AmigaOS. Why stick to a rather slow and expensive solution if it's just for "being different"?

@Manu

I am sure also Mitchy had her fingers (paws?) in the pie. But better not mention Mitchy when Dave is present.

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Wow Dave Haynie, speaks and people have to go out now, dump their A1's and Classic PPC cards, buy an x86 box and harrass hyperion. Darn, I really like my MicroA1 with OS4 on PPC, but I guess, I have to dump it now, cos someone who no longer has anything to do with the Amiga scene says so. Gee I can't wait for Someone from Amiga inc to tell us that using OS4 is evil and that we should all be running Amiga Anywhere. Sheesh!

Quote:

Thanks for posting Dave, We are honoured to have you here. I fully appreciate you comments.

Do you see a contradiction somewhere?

edit: corrected Mitchy from "his" to "her"

Last edited by polka. on 13-Jan-2006 at 02:22 PM.

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@afxgroup

Quote:

I think Hyperion has not reinvented the wheel. They has migrate the os to a similar platform instead.

No, what Hyperion has done/is doing, has been to migrate the AmigaOS to the PPC and got rid of the legacy hardware.
With this work done, it will be easier to follow Apple once again, and migrate to x86, in the future, and also migrate to other cpu's, whatever path AmigaOS will choose.

Last edited by tomazkid on 13-Jan-2006 at 02:26 PM.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@CodeSmith

Quote:

Even if we had gone x86 using a single board to mitigate the driver problem, we still would be in a bind wrt hardware today. Why?

Why indeed. I don't think you've done this kind of work...

Quote:

Question: what board/chipset that was widely available in 2002 is as available now (other than eBay/the bargain bin)?

Well... Microsoft supports all regular PCs under Windows with one HAL. That doesn't optimize every function on every motherboard, but that and a few generic drivers gets you up and running, talking to the hardware, driving the screen, listening to the keyboard, etc. This is all very modular... and at the motherboard level, nearly everything is based on hardware standards anyway. There's just not that much to worry about. If there are any important differences, as long as you have the docs, that's a matter of a few hours work, not days or months.

Quote:

Remember that Hyperion only has so many people working for them, so by the time they have negotiated with Intel, SiS or whoever for chipset docs and rewritten the HAL for the new version of any chip, another version is out and the "current" one is obsolete.

One fairly small HAL will suffice for all PCs... last I checked (Windows 2000 or NT 4.0, I can't recall), the PC HAL ran around 50K. These days, they actually have a few different ones -- for ACPI PCs, one for PCs without ACPI, one for multiprocessor systems. But that's dealing with quite a few variations, and in fact, all ACPI motherboard work with the non-ACPI HAL, too. You're making this molehill into some gigantic mountain. It's not even a noticable hill.

Quote:

Imagine what would happen if they need to switch to a different chipset altogether because the manufacturer decides that the relationship with Amiga is not worth their while any more - you need start from scratch.

No, you don't. Do you even understand the PC architecture a little, or understand what a HAL is for. Or a BIOS? The HAL is going to get most of what it needs simply by making BIOS calls to set everything up, before the OS-proper is booted. You may have some actual device drivers to load these days, based on what's on the motherboard, but again, most of these are not "from scratch", they're tweaks to what's been there previously. This is precisely why, while it doesn't necessarily autoconfig every possible feature of every PC, Linux has no problems booting on any PC. No one spent ages customizing different drivers for every possible minor variation in motherboard -- no such work has ever been necessary.

Quote:

The only people who can cope with that kind of development cycle are Microsoft and Linux, simply because they have so many people to throw at the problem (Apple does not have that problem, because they are Intel partners)

BeOS pretty much booted and ran on any old PC, too. They didn't have the resources to write custom drivers for the things that needed them: graphics chips, audio cards, scanners, printers, etc. But running the generic, hardware standard things like ATA bus, PCI bus controller, USB, even Firewire... not a problem.

Quote:

So, with hindsight it looks like those advocating custom boards we have control over (AmigaOne, PV, Amy'05) were actually correct in their thinking.

So, they get a computer that's totally unsuitable for the desktop, rather than, at worst case, a couple of days of extra HAL coding. Not a good tradeoff, IMHO...

Quote:

Moreover, those advocating using embedded chips (eg those new all-in-one chips from Freescale) are even more correct, because embedded devices tend to have a much longer shelf life than desktop chips

Embedded chips do have a longer shelf life, IF they're successful in the market. They're also running at a tiny fraction of the performance of a desktop chip. They're fine if you're building some kind of computing appliance, assuming the one you chose is fast enough.

Quote:

(as an extreme example, you can still buy 6502s and z80s in bulk, with the companies responsible for these chips having no indication of slowing down production)

Actually, you might have noticed that MOS Technology/CSG stopped making the 6502 long ago. Can you still get one second sourced from GTE? Rockwell? Ok, sure, Bill Mench's Western Design Center... that's pretty much all they do. Can you really get a vanilla Z-80 from Zilog? Have you tried to get a 6800 or 6809 from Freescale? Both of these have 8-bit CPUs of various sorts, but they're modern, not the same old, same old -- nothing that'll drop into that old socket. I actually did a contract project, years back, for a guy who was dealing with the 6809 being discontinued.

Nothing lasts forever. And you mentioned a couple of the most successful chips... nothing modern will have the same legs (when you design in a CPU, you can get an estimated life from the manufacturer, sometimes even a guarantee, but that's still not "forever").

And the reason these live long? They're in fixed performance applications. No one asks for a CPU board upgrade for their toaster oven. In embedded, you pay the least possible amount of cash to get exactly the computing power you need -- anything more is a waste of money. That's diametrically opposed to the world of desktop computing, where more power is needed, now, and always will be (well, if not, Intel will convince everyone they do, or Microsoft will release a new OS that's 50% fatter than last year's model).

@Seehund

Welcome back

Rude!

_________________
2017 Camaro 2SS

@lavo

Quote:

Come on guys, there is no way Apple will sell off its PC division. Its the core of their "digital hub" strategy, where all these little lifestyle devices require the Mac to work ie an iPod needs a mac to get its music, you need a mac to run iTunes to get music of the web (legally), you need the mac to sync your bluetooth phone with your address book and calender (which are also located on the web). And while Apple are still making roughly 30% margin on each mac they sell, I don't think they are in any hurry to sell off the pc division.

As long as the Mac Hardware division is profitable, they won't dump it. Clearly, moving to x86 gives them easy parity with competing hardware -- no need to reinvent all of these various industry wheels... much less struggle and fail to keep a competitive CPU. I expect they'll take that win in a deeper margin, as long as possible.

They one thing they do have to consider, though, is whether that hardware division remains more profitable than a "whole computing world" strategy. Would they make more unbundling MacOS X, extending all of their apps to other hardware. Or sell all of these established applications on Windows? I'm sure that's undecided right now; if the xMac takes off, they'll keep their current strategy.

Quote:

If anything, they are building themselves up to rival Sony.

In some ways, yeah. They're selling "botique" laptops and PCs, just as Sony does. Their media software division is a good match to Sony's, or Adobe's, based on quality and breadth of offerings, even if they can only target a few small percentage points of the market. Of course, Apple claims people will buy Macs in order to run Final Cut or Motion or whatever. If that's true, they don't stand to gain as much as you'd think, moving off the Mac platform.

Quote:

And as for x86 on the mac, the big reason for the switch was laptops. If you watch the Steve's keynote from yesterday, he clearly showed that the G5 PPC was actually worse off in a laptop than the G4 PPC.

Of course it was: the "G5" is just as power hungry as any old Intel, or the older AMDs. Way too much power there for a laptop, even at lower speeds. And there's no compelling reason for IBM to downsize it; that's a ton of both logic and process work, and IBM doesn't really need it themselves. Meanwhile, while Transmeta didn't win, it lit a big fire under Intel (and a smaller one under AMD) to get the power thing under control (AMD's work, I think, was mainly to get leakage under control for the 90nm node, and, oh-by-the-way, now we're only 20W rather than 90W+).

Quote:

As much as IBM say they can produce a G5 for laptops, we are yet to see it. Its like Motorola all over again.

Sure. And really, IBM doesn't have a huge motive, other than the one that could be tweaked via huge cash reserves from Apple... exactly what helped get PPC970 out the door in the first place. That's a bad policy for a systems vendor; you have to be able to sell these things at a competitive price. That's hard to do when all of the CPU's development costs have to be amortized over a few million, or even less than a million CPUs. That's what killed Alpha (well, DEC had plenty of issues, that was one of them).

Quote:

And once Sony and Nintendo release their new consoles, do you think IBM are going to have enough resources to produce millions of Cells for Sony/Nintendo/MS and still supply G5s for Apple? Apple were having a hard enough battle to get hold of G5 processors before then!

IBM's got enough game console work to start up another fab I think they would make the attempt to deliver. The problem is usually that, because IBM does lots of this chip foundry work, the order for the PPCs from IBM is basically treated just like Sony or Microsoft plaing their order -- very long lead times, so IBM can work in all the details. So they either take a big block of chips that'll sit around, or they'll risk coming up short. And of course, when Apple calls for more CPUs and Sony calls the next day, who do you think gets the priority treatment.

When you have 100 companies order the same chip, it's a normal chip industry commodity situation. As well, Apple's there as a potentially big fish in that particular pond. As well as, right now anyway, the only "Intel-only" PC house other than Dell, and Dell talks about using AMD all the time (probably just baiting Intel, but, particularly in servers, they're falling behind sticking with Intel, so eventually, not).

Quote:

I think Apple made the right decision. It now puts them on a level playing field with Windows, as they will run essentially the same hardware. Then the world can decide which OS is better.

I think Apple made the only possible decision. Sticking with G4-only laptops was getting them nowhere -- the G4s were relatively anemic, and you can only repackage that stuff so many times and keep those Macfaithful on the hook. Laptops used to be Apple's largest segment, and giving that whole market off to all the PC vendors making slick laptops would probably kill the Mac.

Quote:

As for Dave Haynie's comments, they are just that. Comments.

Yup... comments. Meant to be constructive, of course, but the value of these was much higher in the years before all this effort was wasted on PPC Amigas. I said the same basic things back then, and no one listened. They don't have to. And I'd LOVE to be wrong... I just don't see any reasons to believe I am. As well as a some-time participant, I've been a student of the personal computer industry since I was about 12, teaching myself BASIC on a dial-up mainframe, drooling over what you could potentially buy in terms of a real computer. In all that time, I've been really surprised by the industry TWICE. Once was Amiga, once was Be. That's pretty much it.

Quote:

No use getting all hot and bothered! You pretty much have an OS that is finished that can only be run on (I'm widly guessing here) maybe 5,000 boards worldwide, but won't be released because they are no more boards to sell. And Hyperion are now relying on 1 or 2 small companies to produce a follow up board to run their OS. For us, all we have seen is a website with a competition for a logo for one company and an interview posted by a third party for the other. If you look at those facts, you can see why Dave made those comments.

Yup...

-Dave

@tomazkid

Quote:

No, what Hyperion has done/is doing, has been to migrate the AmigaOS to the PPC and got rid of the legacy hardware.

Ok, but surely PPC is more similar to 68k than a x86. And don't forget BCPL and all insane things. Now a great part of the OS is written in C and so it should be more portable. However an HAL should be a good idea for the future

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@hazydave

BTW greetings Dave. Great to see you here.
You'll reach "Super Member" status before the end of the day at this rate

Rude!

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2017 Camaro 2SS

@hazydave

Quote:

And the reason these live long? They're in fixed performance applications. No one asks for a CPU board upgrade for their toaster oven. In embedded, you pay the least possible amount of cash to get exactly the computing power you need -- anything more is a waste of money. That's diametrically opposed to the world of desktop computing, where more power is needed, now, and always will be (well, if not, Intel will convince everyone they do, or Microsoft will release a new OS that's 50% fatter than last year's model).

But why i must buy a new cpu every day if i write documents wit a word processor? Ok, there are many scope where power is needed but it was so even 20 years ago when many users was using SGI to made render. I'm not contrary to the improvements but seems if we have lost what a computer is and what we can do for it. Yes, new games needed power and games are absolutely necessary for a platform, but there are many graphics card that costs 600$ and after a week it half its price. But people bought this.
IMHO there is a final answer to this and AmigaOS need to find a SMALL piece of market where people doesn't needed the extreme power to use a word processor and you must admit that this is a peculiarity of Linux (mm.. not really.. )

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@hazydave

First of all: It blew me totally away as i saw you're participating here! Up to
now i thought you wouldn't really be interested anymore and moved elsewhere and
just come up (regarding Amiga stuff) when interviewed or asked or when you want
to have some fun like in the g'olde days and fire up some of your Amiga..

Glad you proved me wrong!

Ok, back on topic:

I really quarrel with myself. PPC is the successor of the 68k and therefore
kind of part of the family... x86 is alien. I like IBM/Freescale much more
than Intel/AMD and not to forget the incredible geek factor of using a PPC
machine.
You all may notice the above are results of my personal taste, not a
single technical reason.. why? Because i simply don't have any clue about the
hardware side of things.. hey, after all i'm just a simple software developer..

But if i really keep that stuff in perspective, i must admit that personal
taste isn't worth a rats ass if we really want to survive and to get
the chance to rise again.
As it was already said, Amiga is a way of life. But what exactly is the "way
of life" (tm) really? Is it the PPC as successor of the 68k? Is it AmigaOS
with it's simple but clever concepts? Is it both together or something totally
different?

IMHO its AmigaOS on it's own. Not the CPU nor some other hardware crap. Ask
yourself dudes: Would you have left the Amiga back in the days of her glory,
when Commodore would have decided to go for some other CPU than 68k? If they
would have went for x86 because they were faster than any available 68k, would
you have left?
I can't tell for you other guys, but i would NOT! And i fail to see a little
fart of a reason why i should have even considered it!

We aren't protected or even unbreakable, just because we look the doors!

Well, to be honest, i wouldn't be happy if we'd be tied to Intel... i don't
like Intel (remember: personal taste) and i think - with my almost unavailable
technical knowledge - AMD have the better technologies or at least are better
in using the available technologies than Intel... AMD is more... sympatico

But both sell fast and cheap CPUs, others sell feature-rich and rock-stable
mainboards... i won't talk about any other component, because we ARE already
using graphics cards, sound cards, whatever... so why not switch the remaining
two hardware pieces too?

To make the long story short, I'm with Dave here.
Though, i wouldn't mind if PPC/Cell would get a high boost of performance and
availability, getting far more widely used and therefore cheaper.. but the
current situation doesn't look too bright for PPC/Cell in desktop world.

While we are at it: I also wouldn't mind seeing you, Dave, doing some new cool
Amiga projects, convincing Carl about a port of REBOL to AOS4+ or even starting
a new startup with resurrecting the Amiga as target (be asured, i would
immediately send my job application your way

- edit -
some typos... you may retain the remaining ones

Last edited by Cyborg on 13-Jan-2006 at 03:41 PM.

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AmigaOS4 development team member

"In the beginning was CAOS.."
-- Andy Finkel, 1988 (ViewPort article, Oct. 1993)

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @hazydave About this X86 thing.. Wouldn't a PASemi dual core chip motherboard with PCI-E, DDR-II, USB2, Firewire, Gigabit and SATA be a good enough computer for Amiga?

I don't really know how fast these cores are compared, say, to a "G5" or an Athlon64. They look to be optimizing for flexible high-end embedded use. They're definitely a step in the right direction: at least they're dealing with modern clock speeds and modern I/O and memory types. So it seems more comparable to a desktop PC today, at least on the small bits of paper I saw on the PASemi site.

Quote:

If produced by the thousands rather than hundreds like today it could become quite cheap. Of course never as cheap as PC's. That's impossible I think.

How cheap is the real question. Assuming this is a performance parity, could anyone deliver it for 2x the price of a comparable PC? 4x? I don't know, but that's the question to ask, as much as "what's the real performance", before you know if this makes any sense or not.

No, you can't be as cheap as PCs. A funny thing happens in volume markets... the same factors that forced PC companies to stop building their own graphics and system chips, has more recently forced them to stop making their own motherboards. So you get giants supplying the same thing (perhaps with tweaks) to Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. Which is truely why the vendor doesn't matter -- they just put it in the box, after all. And that basically illustrates that you're not competing with companies that make millions of motherboards, but really with those who make 10's of millions.

Maybe the real question is, "why compete?" Pretty much everyone in the computer industry has decided they don't have a good reason, and the rest of them are motherboard vendors

Quote:

But do Amiga really have to be cheaper than PC? Do we not pay for excellence?

If you really get excellence. What I'm seeing is that you're paying extra to be at the trailing edge. Don't get me wrong, if you're happy with your A1, great! But I don't expect any mass migration to these, even if they get another supplier of the same hardware. If Hyperion is really concentrating on embedded deals, good for them. I still think AmigaOS makes sense in embedded machines, where CPU speeds are low and memory really does matter. On the desktop, it really, really doesn't matter so much, OS size and all. I can get a gigabyte of RAM for under $100. Meanwhile, data's the same no matter what the OS, and it can monsterous. I have a 300GB hard drive here filled with video, most of it from just one 45 minute project... high definition, it gets like that. The size of your OS, in memory or disc, is totally lost in the noise floor of the data, today. Even Microsoft can't bloat that fast.

Quote:

It's AmigaOS I want! But I really wouldn't mind paying a lot less than I did for my A1.

Sure, and I agree. I'd love to have an AmigaOS machine set up... well, I do have various UAE installations.

I think the big problem is that Hyperion's chasing this dragon of PPC, and the hardware's not something they really do control well. They could have done a straight port to the PC in much less time, assuming they know how to bring up an OS cold on new hardware. Sure, I have done that a few times... but I was also available to Hyperion, pretty much for free, as an advisor on anything they had questions about.

Amithlon or something like it was probably the best bet for such a resource-limited project... that could relaunch AmigaOS on x86 hardware, in emulation, sure, but maybe running on a native kernel with "magic emulation task switching", like Apple did.

But over time, you replace the emulated OS bits with native ones. This could conceivably happen much faster than doing the whole thing, more or less, at once. No actual Amiga hardware is necessary for such a job... full compatibility with the past is only achievable via emulators, anyway (if that... in theory, you could, not sure anyone has).

-Dave

@hazydave

What do you think of AROS? It's a lot less usable, to a braindead user like myself, than OS4.

Do you think AROS is the way forward? Maybe not a 3.1 clone, though..

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

@hazydave

Quote:

They're closing in on taking longer to port the OS to a generic PPC system than Jay, Dale, Dave, Mitchie and the boys did making the original.

Yes - but to be fair AOS1 was a far less complex beast than OS4. Plus I would hazard that the original team back then (not counting inflation) had more money than Hyperion do now.

Hyperion are having a go at bringing the Amiga back which deserves credit as - even where we are now with pre3 - it's a heck of a lot more than anyone else has ever managed.

_________________
Sam

@Hammer

Quote:

Quote: hat happens when I need to render it. My Athlon XP 2500+ took a good 28 hours to render 45 minutes of 8000Kb/s 1080i MPEG-4 Advanced Simple Profile video The issue with AMD K7 Athlon XP and video encoding is that; it doesn’t quite support 128bit (for SSE) data type i.e. the bandwidth between L1 to L2 cache is only 64bits wide. This issue was fixed with the K8.

Yeah, I was aware of that, but didn't blame just that. But I'm sure it's a big factor, as well as just CPU speed in general, given that I'm handing it many times the usual workload. And I think it's only SSE (Barton core), not SSE2/3, if that even matters (depends on how well they've done XViD or DivX 6, I guess).

Well, I could try it on the Turion laptop... might be an interesting experiment. I know I could do much better, today, in the desktop. Once I finish paying for the new camcorder and laptop, maybe

Quote:

I basically dumped my K7 (all three of them e.g. one them was 2.2Ghz AXP) for my Sony Vegas 4.0 work (this is not my day job). I think Vegas 5.0 has a cluster mode encoding (I may recycle K7s for cluster boxes). It too bad the G4 was not on an EV6 bus i.e. G4’s Altivec would have been nice.

Yeah, Vegas 5 and 6 do cluster rendering. I haven't figured out how to get Vegas AND the cluster server installed on the same machine, though. Also, rending from about 80GB of data in the system, I do wonder how much I'd actually gain over Ethernet. Hmmm... I guess XP (yeah, evil empire, on both machines) does support Firewire networking, that would certainly speed up the process. Hmm...

The truth is, the desktop's been fine for MPEG-2/DVD rendering. I'm moving to HDTV with a vengence (camcorder, PC-based tuner, DVD player, etc), and not every piece has caught up yet.

@polka.

Quote:

polka. wrote: @ErikBauer Quote: Hi, I'm a bit overexcited learning that I'm going to write to the father of Amiga, (...) Wasn't that Jay Miner? May he rest in peace.

Yes, he was. Thanks for correcting that; you beat me to it. Without me, maybe the A2000 didn't have a proper CPU slot, or the A3000 only ran Zorro II. Without Jay, there's no Amiga.

I'm more like the weird Uncle (but not "Uncle Ernie" weird) you see at those family occasions, and who's just a little bit too much fun at parties.
-Dave

@hazydave

Nice to see you posting on AW.net. I just finished reading the commodore book, which was very interesting.

Edit: I don't suppose you have any pictures of the infamous speedbumps with the names painted on them? or were no photos taken?

I can see your points, and you make some very good ones.

Personally, I just really like AmigaOS. I bought an AmigaOne for the same reason I upgraded my A4000, I just really like using and developing for them. The future success of Amiga would be a bonus to me, but I wouldn't stop using my AmigaOne if it all went tits up tomorrow.

I *can* see a future for OS4, just not on the desktop. Apparently this picture:



isn't a mock-up.. IE OS4 is apparently running on a PDA already.

Lets say, theoretically of course, in a year or two, there actually are PDAs, cellphones, sat nav systems and set top boxes running OS4. (alright, I know.. optimism isn't the word... ;) but lets say it does get SOME market penetration somewhere other than the desktop. Being able to scale the SAME OS up to the desktop is great; you can sell developers a box running the same OS on the same CPU as various gadgets they might want their software to run on. You'll be able to develop your apps on a desktop machine, actually ON the OS the other devices run on.

I don't think Hyperion are trying to take on the desktop, that would be stupid. The AmigaOne and similar hardware is not the only goal for OS4.x and beyond.

Last edited by xeron on 13-Jan-2006 at 04:29 PM.

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Playstation Network ID: xeron6

@thread, hazydave

first of all, hazydave, it's very nice to see you here. please stay and try to help, in which way ever !
--
i'd like to ask a question (i already asked some time ago) in the context of this discussion (chossing hw platform and by this possible manufacturers).

talking about privacy.
though i have the feeling (which may be worng) privacy is not that present/controversal in other countries as in germany, it maybe relevant to some people in this forum.
is anyone out there, that shares my opinion, that it may be impossible in some years to get pcs without some kind of hardware-based "security" mechanisms (i'm no expert here: tcpa, palladium, whatever, ...) which can't be deactivated and has immanent possibilites for service providers/other institutions to, for example, track user-behaviour (and do all the "bad" things regarding privacy)?
does someone also think, that there could be a chance to establish a different hw/sw platform without these hw-security-devices, committing to something like "freedom-of-computer-use" ?

j

@bratwurst

Do you mean privacy from companies (as in websites watching what you do through cookies) or do you mean privacy from hackers as you would get from a firewall?

_________________
Sam