@Rogue

Quote:

Considering you do not know anything about the internals, that is a pretty bold statement.

Its not a bold statement at all Rogue. I read the contract, AI contracted Hyperion to write an OS, they claimed they have now paid you for that OS, you are claiming that Hyperion doesnt own portions of the OS, that instead you own them. AI can quite easily sue Hyperion for breach of contract, win and bankrupt the company. That won't affect you if you truly arent an employee, but a contracter, but Hyperion is in trouble if they have sold something they dont own and can't deliver. Tell me how I'm wrong?

Quote:

Let's just say things are different and I am not going to honor the rest of your post with an answer.

Is that Rogue speak for I dont understand the question? On another matter, why exactly did you tell everyone Troika was not a hoax, can you tell us why you think that especially after the recent pictures and no board at that show?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

Is that Rogue speak for I dont understand the question?

Surely a far more obvious conclusion would be that he is not allowed to say any more on the issue?

Quote:

On another matter, why exactly did you tell everyone Troika was not a hoax, can you tell us why you think that especially after the recent pictures and no board at that show?

It seems obvious from the recent IRC chat that they know more than they are prepared to say, since they believe that it is Troika's job to release information about their products, so I doubt that you'll get an answer to your question.

Quote:

Herewegoagain wrote: @Wayne Okay, I understand not being able to restructure what has already been contracted and paid for. But if additional things needed to be done to make it work properly, they could have generated a second contract outlining the additional work and conditions to be met couldn't they?

But the problem is, no one here is talking about a second contract, Hyperion hasnt said they have one (in fact from Benji's comments, I think we should assume there is only one) and Amiga Inc isnt saying there is a second mitigating contract. Given all the discussions over the last 18 months or so since the contract was leaked, dont you think someone would have said that there was a second contract if there was one. I don't fault the non-twins for holding onto there code (especially if they havent been paid for it), but they didnt sign a contract with AI, Hyperion agreed to a contract, according to Bill have been paid, and still can't deliver the product and in fact apparently don't own the product they (Benji) sold to AI.
-Tig

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@madtrekker

Quote:

madtrekker wrote: @Tigger It seems obvious from the recent IRC chat that they know more than they are prepared to say, since they believe that it is Troika's job to release information about their products, so I doubt that you'll get an answer to your question.

They know more then they are prepared to say about what? Lets look at the facts.

1) Rogue says Troika is not a hoax
2) Troika cancels bringing a working board to BB4
3) Troika claims to have working boards even though they arent bringing them to BB4
4) Bill McEwen says Troika doesnt have a license and isnt even in discussions for a license.
5) Troika shows two pictures of a board that can't possibly run for several reasons (and only show the front)
6) Troika's non working board doesnt make it to the show. (the customs guys have it).

What could Rogue know that would give him this confidence and not make Troika look like the biggest idiots of all time?

Whats your version of the story?

They have a working prototype, but instead of taking pictures of it, took pictures of a non-working earlier version that has most of the parts not loaded? Does that really make sense to you?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Over in the *troika* thread point 5 is being disputed, so I wouldn't call that a fact, more of a theory. I have no objection to your other facts since they are largely based on either actual events, or things that people have said (in which case it is at least a fact that they said it).

Your facts alone (dismissing 5 for now) do support the theory that Troika are perpertrating a hoax, but that is not the only possible conclusion and more information would certainly help to narrow down the possibilities. If Rogue is in possession of some of this information then it may lead him to believe that Troika is not a hoax.

Their behaviour at BB4 is a little strange, but I am prepared to believe that there could be explanations for this behaviour, so I'm keeping an open mind.

@Herewegoagain

Quote:

Herewegoagain wrote: @Wayne But if additional things needed to be done to make it work properly, they could have generated a second contract outlining the additional work and conditions to be met couldn't they?

I agree with GregS in that I need to reiterate that all of this is continual speculation...

That being said, you are correct EXCEPT that such renegotiations and contracts would need to be set in stone BEFORE the work is undertaken.

I hate to go back to the repair shop analogy, but could you imagine taking your old beater car into the repair shop to get the oil changed. You go in, and sign on the dotted line for a $15 oil change. Later, when you return to pick the car up, the mechanic goes "well ya know, while we were there, we decided to go ahead and replace the carburator, the head gaskets, the lifters, rocker arms, and pretty much completely overhaul your engine, that'll be $3400 please".

You cannot do business that way, and in effect, supposing that this is what it boils down to, then OS4 is being effectively held hostage.

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@madtrekker

Quote:

madtrekker wrote: @Tigger Over in the *troika* thread point 5 is being disputed, so I wouldn't call that a fact, more of a theory. I have no objection to your other facts since they are largely based on either actual events, or things that people have said (in which case it is at least a fact that they said it).

Actually 5 isn't really being disputed. Oleigel isnt saying the board will work, it won't, he's arguing whether its an incomplete route or not (I agree with Bernd and Joanna that it is). They say they have running boards then show us a board with over 1/2 the parts missing, this board doesnt run, period. Noone is arguing that.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

So presumably Hyperion could be offering AInc a version of OS4 equivalent to say update 2, that was perfectly usable on the Aone machines, with a few additions to bring the Classic version up to scratch. Ainc obviously want update 4 and beyond, which frankly is rather better. Hyperion want to be paid for the additional features. Hyperion could also argue that Ainc's failure to grant hardware licenses in the past have acted against the earlier release of OS4 and have been a breach in any "good faith" type clauses.

AmigaOS has been a collection of licensed bits and pieces for a looong time (AmigaBasic, Arexx, anyone?). It is perfectly feasible for Hyperion to have a multitude of legally acceptable contracts for all sorts of OS4 components that allow binary distribution as part of OS4, but where the source and ip remain copyright of the authors/sub-contractors. This is not particularly unusual.

It is equally feasible for Ainc to gain new licenses for all the external components to OS4 and release an OS4.5 or OS5 that is remarkably similar to the current OS4. The only long term losers could well be the owners of Hyperion.

However, if Ainc are remotely interested in keeping, developing and profiting from OS4 and beyond, frankly, they should just offer a decent amount of cash and get it sorted once and for all.

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Quote:

@Wayne I hate to go back to the repair shop analogy, but could you imagine taking your old beater car into the repair shop to get the oil changed. You go in, and sign on the dotted line for a $15 oil change. Later, when you return to pick the car up, the mechanic goes "well ya know, while we were there, we decided to go ahead and replace the carburator, the head gaskets, the lifters, rocker arms, and pretty much completely overhaul your engine, that'll be $3400 please".

How about "that'll be $10,000.00 please!" you know what I mean?

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@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @madtrekker Quote: madtrekker wrote: @Tigger It seems obvious from the recent IRC chat that they know more than they are prepared to say, since they believe that it is Troika's job to release information about their products, so I doubt that you'll get an answer to your question. They know more then they are prepared to say about what? Lets look at the facts. 1) Rogue says Troika is not a hoax 2) Troika cancels bringing a working board to BB4 3) Troika claims to have working boards even though they arent bringing them to BB4 4) Bill McEwen says Troika doesnt have a license and isnt even in discussions for a license. 5) Troika shows two pictures of a board that can't possibly run for several reasons (and only show the front) 6) Troika's non working board doesnt make it to the show. (the customs guys have it). What could Rogue know that would give him this confidence and not make Troika look like the biggest idiots of all time? Whats your version of the story? They have a working prototype, but instead of taking pictures of it, took pictures of a non-working earlier version that has most of the parts not loaded? Does that really make sense to you? -Tig

Where are the conpsiracy theorists of amigaworld.net when you need them?

Any conspiracy theorist would tell you that Rogue is being paid $$$ by troika to promote their board.

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@Darth_X

Sorry man, conspiracy theories require a certain amount of mistrust of the target to work (eg there was no "UFO government conspiracy" in the US before Nixon). We happen to trust the Friedens

@CodeSmith

So would you say you trust the Friedens more than Bill McEwen?

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@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Colin_Camper wrote: I really can't understand how people are putting a negative spin on Bill McEwens answers. Does the following make the situation seem more bleak or more hopeful than where we were last week? The OS4/Hardware impass : Bill McE -' We are positively trying to secure (ideally) two hardware platforms.' The Hyperion/OS4/Amiga Inc contract impass : Bill McE - ' We are trying to reach a settlement and are on friendly terms.' Also Bill confirmed; Fully committed to classic Amiga OS as a desktop OS. Still has regard for the classic Amiga community despite the vitreolic and sub human personal abuse from a few mentally sick individuals. Acknowledged mistakes such as the hopelessly optimistic schedules, coupons and other things. Come on people - let's hear some of the positive conclusions we can draw from all of this! Where are you, Mikey_C, Helgis?

Yes, yes, I believe you are the only one. Anyone else?

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote: @Colin_Camper Yes, yes, I believe you are the only one. Anyone else?

I'm pretty certain SpaceDruid still believes. lol

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@wegster

Me!

Although I don't trust Bill, i think there's still good in him...

@pavlor

May the force be with you..

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Avatar by HNL_DK!

Oh boy, it's funny to read this kind of old thread.

Like this quote from Tigger:

Quote:

Its not a bold statement at all Rogue. I read the contract, AI contracted Hyperion to write an OS, they claimed they have now paid you for that OS, you are claiming that Hyperion doesnt own portions of the OS, that instead you own them. AI can quite easily sue Hyperion for breach of contract, win and bankrupt the company.

Apparently, it was not so easy as people thought a year ago.

Kinda put the statements from Amiga advocates on these forums (nowadays and in the past) in a certain light.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

I'm pretty certain SpaceDruid still believes. lol

Dems fighting words!

I have very little faith in Bill. I do have faith in Amiga. Please note the difference.

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Last edited by linnar on 20-Oct-2007 at 11:51 PM.

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I also think it was a positive read coming from a man who's been in hell for seven long years! - I think he's a fighter!!

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