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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Reality check
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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 11:53:46
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
You still don't understand. No-one is claiming that the code in Hyperions OS and the code in Tao's OS is one and the same.

Did I talk about code anywhere?

Quote:
It's not about the current situation,

It *is* about the current situation because somebody wants to drag the *current* AOS4 in. And it is not me.

Quote:
it's about what Thendic/Genesi licensed *back then*,

Precisely. What Thendic licensed back then is AmigaDE and *not* the current AOS4.

Quote:
and that was Amiga's new OS

A new OS which was radically different from AOS4: a different concept, a different technology, a different product. Something envisioned before the current AOS4 was even born.

Quote:
including any future updates.

So, are you suggesting that AOS4 is an update of AmigaDE?!? That's a plain absurdity.
Apart from the fact that AmigaDE never really existed except for the AmigaAnywhere incarnation - how can anything derive from something that never existed? - AOS4 does not descend from AmigaDE because it instead descends from the AmigaOS 3.x sources. Not to mention that even as regards the functionalities offered, they are completely different.
How many times do we need to spin in circles again?

Quote:
It's about *year 2000* (or whatever) definitions.

At all times, AmigaDE and AmigaOS have been two very distinct things.

Quote:
You should really try to see the possibilities this could lead to if things goes well. Could make you a little less angry!

Who told you I'm not taking into account all the possibilities? I just said that this is not the place to speculate about them.

saimo

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Benji 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 11:54:48
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
it's about what Thendic/Genesi licensed *back then*, and that was Amiga's new OS


EXACTLY! 10 out of 10. Go to the top of the class.

"Amiga's new OS" WAS NEVER A CONTINUATION OF THE "CLASSIC"!!!

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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:13:50
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@hatschi

Quote:
No idea why you get so worked up about this

I don't like lies. And I particularly don't like this one.

Quote:
but from what I can make out of the woolly announcements and ideas (that you call "vision" and "precise entity") is that once AOS5 was reached, AOS4 and AmigaDE would be integrated/merged/combined as a single OS-like product. So yes, AmigaDE and OS4 were never the same since AmigaDE was often referred to as a follow-up product with AmigaOS being "merged" into AmigaDE. "Follow-up" only because at that time, the OS4-release was announced to be imminent (2002).
But - the more Fleecy/Gary/Bill-announcements you read from the last 6 years, the more fluffy and woolly their thoughts appear.

"Amiga Digital Living Tangent Development", "AOS4.5/AG2" "AG3", "AOS 4.2", "AOS5", "AmigaDE", "Amiga Digital Repositories that provide a single universal layer", "Amiga Digital Content Engine", "Domestic Digital Habitat (TM) concept", "different implementation subsets of Tao's Intent, targeted at the unique usability matrix of each target demographic"

You are basically saying that, fluff aside, "AmigaDE and OS4 were never the same". I think we agree.

Quote:
- who cares?

Me. And I bet I'm not the only one.

saimo

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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:29:21
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@-Sam-

Quote:

-Sam- wrote:
Eh?

By who? When?

In this thread you can find the latest attempts in that direction.

saimo

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itix 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:29:24
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Rogue

Quote:

At one time I got a mail from Fleecy asking for my opinion about an AmigaOS being put on top of MorphOS. I answered something in the line of "No idea, I don't know MorphOS at all". We where asked whether we would come on board, and we said "no, no interest in that", which probably lead to the popular believe that "Hyperion prevented MorphOS from becoming the new AmigaOS".


But Hyperion entertainment demanded that MorphOS must support WarpUp kernel and Hyperion found lack of WarpUp support problematic. Especially Ben Hermans was very unhappy due to lack of WarpUp support.

And at least my understanding at that time was that WarpUp was meant to be new AmigaOS as well. WarpUp guru Steffen Haeuser was for WarpUp based AmigaOS...


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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:31:24
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@Rogue

Thank you for taking the time to share this part of the story.

saimo

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hatschi 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:33:43
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@saimo

Quote:
I don't like lies. And I particularly don't like this one.


Do you have a reference/link to this statement/lie (AmigaDE is OS4)? You also might want to answer -Sam-'s question. I also don't see anybody "hammering" something "into the community's head".

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ikir 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:34:57
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5647
From: Italy

@hatschi

Quote:
I also don't see anybody "hammering" something "into the community's head


No? If you don't see it, it is useless to continue to follow this thread.

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saimo 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:45:44
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2408
From: Unknown

@hatschi

Quote:

hatschi wrote:
Do you have a reference/link to this statement/lie (AmigaDE is OS4)? You also might want to answer -Sam-'s question. I also don't see anybody "hammering" something "into the community's head".

I had answered -Sam- 4 minutes earlier than your post.

saimo

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itix 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 12:52:29
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@saimo

Quote:

we are witnessing an attempt at convincing the *community* that AmigaOS 4 is (part/relative of) AmigaDE.


Were you living on Mars last 5 years? According to Amiga Inc, OS4 was always part of AmigaDE. Fleecy told imaginary stories how OS4 would go cross platform and integrated into DE.

Since Amiga Inc owns the Amiga their opinion is the official one. If it wasnt, AmigaOS4 would not be the official AmigaOS.

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stew 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 13:05:23
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2003
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@saimo

I recall that OS4 was touted as only a start. There was supposed to be a progression 4.0 - 4.2 ect.. until the "Holy Grail" of 5.0, at which we reached the run anywhere Amiverse. Is 4.0 an update or precursor? Is the precursor included in the contract?

I guess I am not as understanding of contractual legalisms as you because it still looks muddy to me. I am a building contractor and have been burned by not being real specific in making contracts. Two parties can understand the same words in two different ways. That is why, unfortunately, lawyers get involved. For me it was cheaper to take a loss rather than pay a lawyer. Anybody have gold plated bathroom fixtures? I know a customer that does. Real Au!


Sorry edited for some gross spelling mistakes

Last edited by stew on 14-Dec-2006 at 01:10 PM.

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hatschi 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:32:41
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@saimo

Quote:
I had answered -Sam- 4 minutes earlier than your post.


...with a fuzzy "attempts in that direction" and a link that did not answer the "who?" nor did it exactly say "where".
It's always a good idea to provide some clear references, links, quotes before making statements as you did earlier in this thread (e.g. "hammering into the head", "insult at the community."). This is especially useful if you start a new thread that appears like an offspring of another one and seems to allude to something posted somewhere else.
Not everyone might share/grasp your feeling of "being insulted", therefore maybe you could give them (and me) a better hint where to find this insult - otherwise they might think you are exaggerating only to bring the point home.

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redrumloa 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:38:38
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@saimo

Quote:
I can't believe we are at this point. In the ocean of debates about AmigaOS 4 in the form we know it today, things got so mixed up that finally, these days, we are witnessing an attempt at convincing the *community* that AmigaOS 4 is (part/relative of) AmigaDE.


Who said that? Amiga inc themselves wanted absolutely nothing to do with the legacy system, hardware or software. They repeated this continuously, they half heartedly stated they would be willing to license to a 3rd party for development. Don't you guys remember the Cyote Flux interview where Bill McEwen asked a shocked Cyote Flux guy if his group wanted to produce OS4?

Speaking for myself, all I am saying is Thendic has a legal leg to stand on against Amiga Inc. I am not drawing conclusions to a forced Hyperion OS4 on Genesi hardware. I do however find it odd that people were so resistant to OS4 on available working hardware. How would OS4 on the Peg 2 hav been bad? How would it in Efika be bad?

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Benji 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:42:25
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@itix

Quote:
integrated into DE.


So to integrate into one you need at least another component. The point being that there are two different products here, they are not the same. It was two then and its still two now.

Amiga announced working with Tao on 8th January 2000 - suggesting that they had worked on that agreement in late 1999. That is for Amiga DE.

Amiga announced OS4 on 31st March 2001: "This is a staged series of releases that will bring a native port of the AmigaOS to the PPC."

I think it should be also pointed out that I dont believe anyone would sign a contract based on "imaginary stories". I think the lawyers would want something more specific.


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redrumloa 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:44:44
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:

In short, DE came first, then OS4 was started to stop people from drifting away.


No way, that never happened. OS4 was started because a few companies not named Amiga Inc saw what they thought was a potential market. Amiga Inc was indifferent enough to permit the original license. After a now very public fake, false start, Hyperion took over and actually started a product.

I do not see where McEwen's Amiga Inc ever actively did anything themselves for the Amiga Classic community.

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Benji 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:48:21
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@redrumloa

Quote:
I do however find it odd that people were so resistant to OS4 on available working hardware. How would OS4 on the Peg 2 hav been bad? How would it in Efika be bad?


Its bad because its not going to happen unless "BBRV" stops posting nonsense here and actually comes to an agreement with Amiga Inc. The ridiculous situation is just putting everybody off.

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Benji 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:51:20
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@redrumloa

Quote:
No way, that never happened. OS4 was started because a few companies not named Amiga Inc saw what they thought was a potential market.


Unfortunately it was up to Amiga Inc to sort it out - I think we can agree on that. "a few companies" could see what they like but they couldnt do anything without Amiga Inc.

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redrumloa 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:52:53
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@Yssing

Yes you remember this correctly. There is a lot of he said / she said, but at the core MorphOS was certainly within spitting distance of becoming the official OS4. After that fact it becomes muddier. Ralph and others have said Amiga Inc's demands were ridiculous, they were demanding Ralph turn over all rights of the MOS IP to Amiga Inc. Others also claim this demand was due to a certain other company who was porting games at the time to twist Amiga Inc's arm with a proposal full of wildly unrealistic goals.

-Edit-
Looks like Rogue clarified the bottom part of my statement.

Last edited by redrumloa on 14-Dec-2006 at 02:59 PM.

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redrumloa 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 14:56:21
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@saimo

Quote:
Why should I? I've been doing it for years, but now I find too disgusting that the lie "AmigaOS 4 is AmigaDE" is being hammered also into the community's head, especially considering that there seem to be people who are not well aware of the situation and thus may get easily manipulated.
I see this history rewrite also as an insult at the community.


Whoa! Calm down!

The history rewrite here is by Amiga Inc themselves and a few individuals who apparently do not remember the history well. Who is trying to claim HyperionOS4 is AmigaDE? Point this out to me please.

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redrumloa 
Re: Reality check
Posted on 14-Dec-2006 15:02:53
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@saimo

I'm sorry, but I think you are seeing a boogey man where there is none. Well maybe Bill Buck is a Boogey Man to you, I can accept that. Buck is a bit of a inaccurate remark removed . If you are claiming other casual observers are doing what you say, i think you are way off base.

Last edited by redrumloa on 15-Dec-2006 at 09:22 PM.

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