@IOWASURFER

Quote:

Don’t worry about it I will just go sit in my corner a pout I have nothing that can run os4.0

Well stop sitting in the corner and feel sorry for your self, go out have some fun, drink a bear.

Quote:

and can buy nothing that it can run on and that’s that..

I have already posted a direct link to site whit lots of classic hardware on sale:

http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1286&forum=21

If you buy it or not it’s up to you, I can tell your now, that no one is happy about current situation that includes developers, community members, Hyperion and Amiga Inc, believe it or not, but that’s how things are at the moment, I hope the legal proceedings can be over soon, I think the issue her all different sides and agendas working ageist etch other, it the politics that is undermining the real progress her.

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@IOWASURFER

I'm sure someone will make new PowerPC addon cards after OS4 is released.

Is it really that difficult if you contact Hyperion/the Friedens? If done with already
supported chips (some SoC, SATA, ethernet and sound) I suppose mostly smaller
changes would have to be made on the HAL. Maybe now Elbox could start doing
something???

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@Samwel

Quote:

I'm sure someone will make new PowerPC addon cards after OS4 is released.

Start with #10 here

Then give me your input please.

#6

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@retro

Quote:

retro wrote: @IOWASURFER i have an amiga one micro. but i will bay one licens just to suport !!!! happy xmas

You may want to rephrase that. We are not sure that a "real" license will be included. Looks alot like Amithlon all over again.

@Samwel

Now where is that Shark at anyway? Actually I would be interested in a new ppc option for OS4. I think my aged frankenstien 4000's could use a little boost. The one thing that would be needed in addition to the cpu card is a scandoubler. Bring back the toastscan! Only have one PIV working now.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Well don’t think CPU power is the only thing effecting compile time, disk speed does too,

Given that the disk speeds of modern disks are actually in the same range as the memory bandwidth of the CSPPC, that's just another nail in the coffin... Also, on *most* current operating systems, "unused" RAM is used to cache the disk, whereas at least historically, AmigaOS would go back to the actual disk all the time, making it appear even slower. One of the reasons Amithlon has a whole bunch of x86 native modules is that it allowed me to use the linux compiler; The AmigaOS gcc (geekgadget, back then, and version 2.9x) was just too painful to use....

Quote:

As you can see it not very complicated do divide your project up, this shortens the compilation time,

*Smile* You do know what I do for a living, don't you? 150k lines of code, a Makefile systems to build it on a variety of architectures and OS's.

Quote:

this shortens the compilation time,

Actually, what shortened your compilation time compared with mine is that (a) you did not use any optimisation (which is bad, because in addition to the resulting code running slow, you also miss out on some warnings which the "-Wall" switch, which you should also use, can only provide when optimising), (b) you almost certainly did not use templating (which requires the whole templated code to be visible whereever another class uses it), and (c) you did not actually compile, and your link stage just failed (i.e. you made a typo --- you meant "-c" not "-E" :)
On the plus side, you *did* use the C++ compilation engine (by calling your files *.cpp), even though your header file suggests you only used the C functionality.

Quote:

Now you include my_header.h in all files needing my_function1 and my_dunction2.

Word of advice, learnt from painful debugging session many years ago: If you have a file "bla.cpp" implementing a bunch of functions, and a header file "bla.h" declaring them, DO hash-include bla.h at the top of bla.cpp!
Otherwise you will never get any warning about inconsistencies between the declarations and the actual implementations, which can lead to all sorts of fun (like spending the Christmas/New Year week finding out why a line "a=3;" causes a floating point exception. Not the first time, or the second time. No, something like the 20 millionth time. And only on x86, not on PPC. I could still wring the neck of the guy who thought project-wide includes did not have to concern him....).

@number6

My input is that classic is for UAE! This is 20 year old hardware which should
stay dead IMO. I'm ALL for new hardware. IMO even the AmigaOne's are better.
I can't understand why anyone would still use computers that slow for anything
other than maybe some odd game now and then. But that could mostly be done
on E-UAE/WinUAE also..

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@Samwel

Quote:

My input is that classic is for UAE! This is 20 year old hardware which should stay dead IMO. I'm ALL for new hardware. IMO even the AmigaOne's are better.I can't understand why anyone would still use computers that slow for anything other than maybe some odd game now and then. But that could mostly be done on E-UAE/WinUAE also..

Thank you.
But I might have been too vague?

You said:
Quote:

I'm sure someone will make new PowerPC addon cards after OS4 is released.

Which is why I pointed back to the brief exchange between myself and Kjetil,
concerning that particular aspect...the contract.

#6

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@number6

Why would the contract stop development of 3rd party addons for classic Amigas?
Is there anything in the contract stopping Hyperion from adding support in OS4 for
new classic PPC upgrades?

Last edited by Samwel on 24-Oct-2007 at 02:30 AM.

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@Samwel

Quote:

Is there anything in the contract stopping Hyperion from adding support in OS4 for new classic PPC upgrades?

That is my question as well.
I don't have that answer.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 24-Oct-2007 at 02:44 AM.

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@Samwel

Quote:

Why would the contract stop development of 3rd party addons for classic Amigas?

It doesn't matter what you plug into your classic Amiga. It will still be a classic Amiga.
The contact itself does not actually mention classic Amiga PPC. It talks of 'Target-Hardware' from the definition it is reasonable to assume any classic Amiga with PPC is Target-Hardware. It really is not reliant when the PPC card is made, it is still classic Amiga PPC card.

However the OS 4 schedule and feature list does explicitly mention 'classic' hardware.
"Runs on the AmigaOne as well as the classic harware. Blizzard version probably undesirable/impossible (performance reasons), but CyberStorm PPC required."

@Bit7

Quote:

It doesn't matter what you plug into your classic Amiga. It will still be a classic Amiga.The contact itself does not actually mention classic Amiga PPC. It talks of 'Target-Hardware' from the definition it is reasonable to assume any classic Amiga with PPC is Target-Hardware. It really is not reliant when the PPC card is made, it is still classic Amiga PPC card.

On October 7, 2007 you wrote:
Quote:

I have just quickly gone over the contract again and I can't see anywhere that directly allows Hyperion to target classic.

Source:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24394&forum=14

So. Unless I read these two posts wrong, I am still left without a definitive answer.

#6

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@number6

From the contract:
"Target-Hardware" means the PPC based hardware developed and marketed for the Amiga platform including but not limited to the hardware developed and marketed by Phase 5, DCE and the AmigaOne hardware developed by Escena under contract with the Amiga One Partners."

How could a new PPC card designed and marketed only for a classic Amiga not fit the definition: "PPC hardware developed and marketed for the Amiga platform"?

@IOWASURFER

I'll ask a hard hitting question:

This is the current line up -

Classic Amiga+PPC: OS4
Amiga 1, u1: OS4

What is next ?
OS4.1, OS4.2, ...

Even if Hyperion win the current court case it is unlikely they will be able to wrest all future "Amiga" OS's away from AI. AI will (or at least claim to) develop OS5, whatever that is.

Hyperion may continue to develop OS4 but aren't they stuck in an evolutionary black hole ? There are only so many improvements to the current OS4 that can be made before you start having to do some major refactoring; ripping stuff up; adopting the latest technologies.

They will certainly need new hardware because there aren't currently enough Amigans to make it really profitable. Are AI going to give more licences ? IANAL, if Hyperion win then it's conceivable to see OS4 on SAM, perhaps even EFIKA.

The OS4.x roadmap may last a while but sooner or later it's going to reach the end of the road. You're annoyed at the lack of possibilities to run it now, but the big picture makes that problem look like a walk in the park.

@IOWASURFER

Quote:

IOWASURFER wrote: @Ferry Can I buy yours Ferry? :P

Of course... NOT! Anyway, I don't have any Classic PPC hardware, if you want any, again, try eBay, no need to ask to me for any. BTW, are you REALLY wanting to buy PPC equipment to use OS4 on it or only making some noise and crying-out-loud? That's what it looks like...

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

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@IOWASURFER

Quote:

Hurry up and wait a new movie I am writing about AMIGA! :(

Somehow, I don't get what you are saying...

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@umisef

Quote:

AmigaOS would go back to the actual disk all the time, making it appear even slower.

AmigaOS 4.0 uses free memory to cache disk access, although it is only used for SFS partitions ( and an as of yet unreleased file system Joerg wrote). There is a global disk cache for that purpose.

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@umisef

Quote:

*Smile* You do know what I do for a living, don't you? 150k lines of code, a Makefile systems to build it on a variety of architectures and OS's.

Shore I did, I just head to make the comment, I know the classic computers are not ideal computers for large source code, but to say you can use it for development of larger or smaller projects is incorrect, many have and many do develop on classic Amiga systems whit way less cpu power, 680x0 cpu’s are not that fast.


Quote:

you also miss out on some warnings which the "-Wall" switch,

I don’t se point including stuff in this example that is of topic to the example it self, there might be some reading this thread besides me and you, that might be confused by –o3 –I../include/:/sdk/bla/bla –Wall -raauto –lauto
–D__USE_INLINE__ and so on.

Quote:

(i.e. you made a typo --- you meant "-c" not "-E" :)

I don’t think does matter, -E argument seams to work whit GCC and C++, heck most Makefiles are written so you easy swap out the compiler.

Quote:

You *did* use the C++ compilation engine (by calling your files *.cpp),

That’s because I’m currently working on project using the g++ compiler, it does not matter what extension you use, it usually compiles anyway; the code is pretty genetic.

Quote:

Even though your header file suggests you only used the C functionality.

Most source codes compiled whit g++ will happy compile whit GCC, where few sources I have come over does any thing C++ at all, many call them self C++ developers when really write genetic C code.

Quote:

Otherwise you will never get any warning about inconsistencies between the declarations and the actual implementations

Thanks for reminding me.

I’m quite shore you can help on my correct project, but you need AmigaOS4 compatible hardware, I’m quite your experienced wooed have been where useful.

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@CodeSmith
We need a small standalone SoC based PPC mobo to use for OS4!

The latest A1200 PPC 200mhz on ebay went for 310GBP!!!!

Why cant we make a 466mhz PPC ITX board for less with alot more grunt for half the price and maybe with Power VR built in.

Also I think it is better to produse mass SoC mini mobo with adequate specs and cheap price so that we can all buy one and then we can scrap em every year when new one comes out.

Theres no point in making a massive ATX amiga 2ghz dual core Amiga becuase they are to expensive and by the time they are ready to ship everybody wants something more. So thus having a small cheap PPC mobo is better becuase you can update once a year etc, Plus the SoC based PPC chips are getting better and better to the point where normal PPC wont be needed.

So I say If a new dual core SoC based PPC like the e300 e600 would be nice on a small ITX or NANO-ITX standard mobo under 300GBP all you have to do is add RAM and Storage and buy OS4!

Regards.

Last edited by alientek on 24-Oct-2007 at 12:40 PM.
Last edited by alientek on 24-Oct-2007 at 12:39 PM.

@Rogue

Quote:

AmigaOS 4.0 uses free memory to cache disk access, although it is only used for SFS partitions ( and an as of yet unreleased file system Joerg wrote). There is a global disk cache for that purpose.

Cool. Great to hear!

Next you are going to tell me that OS4 also handles large files in the ram disk much better, right? (OS 3.9 was abysmal in that regard. Sure, nobody ever expected files of a few hundred MB in the ram disk, but still...)