@xeron

yep, you are correct.

@all

Why not to develop 68k version any more?

When Natami arrives there will be much "horse power" to run 68k operating system, not to mention compatibility with huge amount of existing software for 68k....

>Bernd, have you make something with OWB recently ????

No, i first want newest compiler GCC4.3.2 get working for 68k, then updatet SDL libs.
if that work well, then i try owb.gcc4 is faster.

The 68k amigaos target is the only target in gcc offical source and with luck that OS4 gcc is not in gcc (they try to delete 68k amiga compiler build,because they name amigaos4 as amigaos and not amogaos4).they try to remove old code.

http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2003-10/msg00329.html

for example
.....
- amigaos*)
- archive_cmds='$rm $output_objdir/a2ixlibrary.data~$echo "#define NAME $libname" > $output_objdir/a2ixlibrary.data~$echo "#define LIBRARY_ID 1" >> $output_objdir/a2ixlibrary.data~$echo "#define VERSION $major" >> $output_objdir/a2ixlibrary.data~$echo "#define REVISION $revision" >> $output_objdir/a2ixlibrary.data~$AR $AR_FLAGS $lib $libobjs~$RANLIB $lib~(cd $output_objdir && a2ixlibrary -32)'
- hardcode_libdir_flag_spec='-L$libdir'
- hardcode_minus_L=yes
-
- # Samuel A. Falvo II reports
- # that the semantics of dynamic libraries on AmigaOS, at least up
- # to version 4, is to share data among multiple programs linked
- # with the same dynamic library. Since this doesn't match the
- # behavior of shared libraries on other platforms, we can use
- # them.
- ld_shlibs=no
- ;;
-

......

i can now with very less work build a actual gcc with newest libstdc++ and libgcc.
it work with amidev sdl example.but on big sdl c++ code give linker error.

gcc4.3.2 use automatic libstdc++.but this contain no __decimalpoint function old gcc math libs need, so the big c++ code do not link

when add glibc in linker then __decimalpoint is find, but then the program crash and printf and filio dont work.on amidev c++ sdl example it work, it load a bmp file and can print text to console.

The math libs libm.lib are not in GCC source.
thanks for the the link to the page, is very usefull, in look where to find mathlibs and ixemul sources.

but i think i use mos ixemul lib, because this use no traps.
i must find out, wy this not work on OWB.

i can also compile sdl lib except 1 file that i compile with gcc3.

the 68k gcc compiler use special amiga parameter in register support that is hard to add in compiler but for easy compiler port i want this feature not add.

MOS OS4 too have this feature not, of course other gcc to not.

I search too for a actuel working geek gadget enviroment, try to to compile gcc4.3.2 for 68k systems.

now it is for cygwin.

but i think i can compile 68k gcc compiler that run on 68k systems on cygwin too, (libstdc++ is build for 68k systems with new compiled gcc from buildscript)
when set host too amigaos.

but i do that later.

i hope in 1-2 weeks the compilers and mathlibs are ready and then can release and maybe there is gcc4.4.0 final out and a new OWB doduo follower.

So its no time to hurry up
If somebody want play with the compilers let me know(write a pn here), any coding help or testing is welcome.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 13-Oct-2008 at 09:22 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 13-Oct-2008 at 09:08 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 13-Oct-2008 at 09:06 AM.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 13-Oct-2008 at 09:03 AM.

@bernd_afa

thanks for the informations

As I have said, ixemul.library AOS4.X sources from joerg are available on request, in case you want to see ixemul.library AOS4.X code for 68k update.

Thanks to try to made SDL updated for 68k, verry interesting for SDL programs on real amigas or emulated amigas.

About OWB 68k, if you want to add all the features, OWB 68k will be slow on real amigas. Allready said but OWB68k 1.2 have more speed than OWB1.3 68k because an additionnal features (fonts) slow OWB 68k 1.3 a lot.

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@Mrodfr

>Allready said but OWB68k 1.2 have more speed than OWB1.3 68k because an >additionnal features (fonts) slow OWB 68k 1.3 a lot.

I think not thats because of features, i think there is something slowdown OWB.
writing a window full of text with truetype aa fonts in AFA does also on a 060/50 not take more than 1 sec.and thats more text than internet pages have.

so it cant be possible that the slowdown is so much.

the sdl test draw images and come to framerate of 390 frames / sec when blit 25* a object with 32*32 Pixel on 640*480 32 bit window on my winuae.

when i disable JIT so i get 040/25 speed, then it draw 14 fps.a 060/50 can get 25 fps on 16 bit screen withpout problem i think.

its the first time i see SDL benchmarks, and i think sdl is not so slow as told

and when a internet page need 5 sec to show, then the draw time need is very small under 3%.

@All

OWB 68K can be used in AmigaSYS and AmiKit right?
All xxx-UAE users right?

_________________
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@meet.mrnrg

yes, It's one the the interest (for classic amiga aslo) of the work for OWB that bernd maybe made (if he have time and motivation) in the futur, IMHO.

@Bernd

OK. OWB 1.3 68k have surely a problem that mean more slower than OWB1.2 68k.

BTW, up to date SDL and ixemul for 68k will improve the whole thing also.

_________________
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@bernd_afa

If u can, try to incorporate OWB html rendering engine in AWeb. I simply can't do without its array of features, chief among these the excellent ARexx port.
As for porting AWeb to Aros, I'd suggest concentrating first on the 68k version, where there are more people who could test it (UAE is ubiquitous), then eventually an Aros port will come, when the 68k will be stable & usable enough.

Last edited by 0luca0 on 14-Oct-2008 at 07:03 AM.

@0luca0

Yes sadly aweb use reaction, and cant work on AROS.
I prefer to get Voyager source.Its MUI and can work on all Systems.

Maybe here is somebody who know new e-mail adress of the Authors.
zapek have release ambient as opensource so wy i not release voyager ?

I try the adresses in this site

http://v3.vapor.com/contact/

but my mail is not recieve, because the adresses are invalid

Last edited by bernd_afa on 14-Oct-2008 at 07:40 AM.

@bernd_afa

Maybe someone on the MorphOS forums, knows Zapek new email.


As for AWeb, you could let it become a MUI application. Is it difficult to change from Reaction to MUI ??

@0luca0

change a gui system is most work, also that i dont love MUI so much to write a whole app.

but voyager is from the pref management bookmarks etc ok, only what need is new html engine.

and if somebody enhance the MUI HTML class with OWB code, then every mui app can use modern HTML

@bernd_afa

Why don't u modify the HTMLView MUI class (which is open source, http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/htmlview-mcc/) with OWB html engine ?
This could be a good first step, in order to have a reusable MUI class, until the Voyager source code is made available.

@0luca0

for sure, strangé, from alfonso ranieri, allready use HTMLview. Update this class and strange become verry updated (same for the YAM program).

Voyager author (I hope):

http://zapek.com/

Last edited by Mrodfr on 14-Oct-2008 at 05:01 PM.

_________________
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Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project

@Mrodfr


good find, this seem his homepage, but i see no E-Mail adress to contact.in about i see only a picture and a impressum i see not here

i find now a slowdown problem of SDL library

when a system have no vsync wait (voodoo winuae can switch on off, then the run timer task, use full 100% CPU load.

so its important for now that amiga support the wait to a vsync so this function is only called 60-120 times /sec.I change that code with Delay(1) and openredallert (compile with gcc4.3.2 does not slow down whole system

static int RunTimer(void *unused)
{
D(bug("SYSTimer: Entering RunTimer loop..."));

if(GfxBase==NULL)
GfxBase=(struct GfxBase *)OpenLibrary("graphics.library",37);

while ( timer_alive ) {
if ( SDL_timer_running ) {
SDL_ThreadedTimerCheck();
}
if(GfxBase)
WaitTOF(); // Check the timer every fifth of seconds. Was SDL_Delay(1)->BusyWait!
else
Delay(1);
}
D(bug("SYSTimer: EXITING RunTimer loop..."));
return(0);
}

there is some other non system friendly code in sdl.

This code do a busy loop and use 100% CPU load when a delay is called less than 50.

strange, editor show the complete line but, page show only upto ms when no space is between ms < 20

void SDL_Delay (Uint32 ms)
{
// Do a busy wait if time is less than 50ms

if(ms < 20)
{ clock_t to_wait=clock();

#ifndef __SASC
ms*=(CLOCKS_PER_SEC/1000);
#endif
to_wait+=ms;

while(clock()

Last edited by bernd_afa on 15-Oct-2008 at 08:23 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 15-Oct-2008 at 08:22 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 15-Oct-2008 at 08:21 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 15-Oct-2008 at 08:18 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 15-Oct-2008 at 08:08 AM.

@bernd_afa

It's good to see you've started inspecting owb code.

While waiting for Voyager source code, u could modify HTMLView reusable MUI class (see my post above for link) with OWB html engine.
There's already a tiny, but none-the-less full featured web browser called Strangè which uses HTMLView.

@bernd_afa

Quote:

i find now a slowdown problem of SDL library

Quote:

there is some other non system friendly code in sdl.

AmigaSDL has lots of issues and you have found one of them... AmigaSDL renders directly to the WB bitmap, lacks screennotify support, has broken 8bit screen support, has broken 16bit screen support and many more.

I have planned to create an updated version of AmigaSDL based on PowerSDL for MorphOS (since it is ported from AmigaSDL and well compatible) but I think I never have enough time to do that. It could be nice to find someone to backport changes from PowerSDL to AmigaSDL or create completely new AmigaSDL port from PowerSDL...

_________________
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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@0luca0

I think you propose too much different work for bernd at the same time. Not great IMHO ?????

@itix

Thanks for, maybe I hope, giving/explaining your SDL experience to bernd, in case bernd want to progress on the SDL amiga 68k part ???

@bernd

I have opened a thread on a french forum about zapek / voyager source but not real good informations about this point untill now.....

_________________
BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????

-A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+SCSI-KIT
-SAM440EP-667mhz-on MapowerKC3000+AOS4.1

Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project

@Mrodfr

I'm proposing just what Bernd would like to do with Voyager sources, with the difference that Strangè and HTMLView are open source;
here's the link for strangè web page: http://alfie.altervista.org/soft/strange.html

@Bernd:

I don't think sdl is needed for incorporating owb html engine into HTMLView mui class. The MUI class takes care of rendering the page on screen.

Last edited by 0luca0 on 15-Oct-2008 at 02:53 PM.

@0luca0

first on this thread bernd want to see OWB run better on 68k version.

First on OWB code and finally there are problems on SDL 68k and update for SDL 68k and ixemul for 68k are needed (a dream for 68k users).

For sure another possibility is to update html view with maybe code inside OWB. that immediately improve strange or YAM futur HTML mail reading and new progrmas that will use HMLview BUT strange is not a browser and OWB 68k 1.3 version is not a "real" browser.

SDL68K and ixemul.library68k updated are dreams for real or emulated amigas that maybe (said maybe) direclty improve a lot the actual OWB 68k version.


OWB NEEDED LIBRARY 68K VERSION FOR OWB LIKE AOS4 VERSION: (Joerg old comments)

- libSDL.a version 1.2.11, ideally a port of Richard Drummond's AmigaOS4
version from http://rcdrummond.net/sdl/ as only with that one it's
guaranteed that my AmigaOS parts of OWB work
- libicuuc.a and libicudata.a version 3.4.1, http://icu-project.org/
- libssl.a and libcrypto.a version 0.9.8d, http://openssl.org/
- libxml2.a version 2.6.19, http://xmlsoft.org/
- libxslt.a version 1.1.14, http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/

The versions are the minimum required, newer versions are of course no problem.

MEGACZ has ported: from his site: libxml2-2.6.32-bin-m68k.lha. missing the others ones

Joerg said (months ago) that OWB 68k stop because slow. Maybe with new SDL 68k and new ixemul 68k, OWB become much better (but allways slow).

Next step is someone to port missing libraries and maybe joerg start again to compile new 68k version for OWB ??? Of course, all are just here IMHO.

Last edited by Mrodfr on 15-Oct-2008 at 06:08 PM.
Last edited by Mrodfr on 15-Oct-2008 at 06:07 PM.

_________________
BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????

-A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+SCSI-KIT
-SAM440EP-667mhz-on MapowerKC3000+AOS4.1

Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project