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      /  OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
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Ami603 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 18:07:20
#161 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 580
From: Valencia,Spain 8-)

@KimmoK

Not really, if we look at the past, you can find that AmigaOS4 altivec support was added long before Morphos got it.

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Chain-Q 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 18:16:35
#162 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 823
From: Budapest, Hungary

@Ami603
Quote:
Not really, if we look at the past, you can find that AmigaOS4 altivec support was added long before Morphos got it.

Actually, AltiVec support is also in there for a long time in MorphOS (long long before 2.0 was released), and it was made available for quite a few developers, to let them optimize their applications. AltiVec code was already there in some key MorphOS applications released during 1.4.x times, just sitting inactive, until 2.0. So people upgrading to the new system could immediately take advantage of it, without upgrading the applications or waiting for new versions to be released.

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Fab 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 18:45:47
#163 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@AP

Well, i didn't claim i was benchmarking the OS speed itself. Only real world applications.

To benchmark the os itself, you'd have to do unitary tests (memory allocation, disk/filesystem tests, 68k emu performance, ...). But this kind of tests has to be done with care, else you can easily misinterpret an apparent difference of performance.

That said, that Q3 test actually benchmarks the OS 3D driver performance here. The MorphOS Q3 port is indeed untouched on the OpenGL part, and i'd assume it's the same for the OS4 port. So what's really measured is the underlying OS component there, which is mainly the opengl layer. There's a reason why Q3 is often used as a benchmark.

Now, i have another "OS" test which comes to my mind, but it's not too fair:
Consider a golded:bak/ Golded backup directory containing 4000 files (SFS).

On OS4 Workbench, displaying the 4000 files in list mode took almost 30 seconds and needed 200MB RAM (and there's a refresh bug with so many files when selecting files, btw).
On MorphOS, listing the same directory took about 2 seconds and needed 3MB RAM.

But I perfectly know Workbench hasn't been really improved in that area since 3.x ages, so that's a cheap shot. :)

Last edited by Fab on 16-Feb-2009 at 06:48 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 18:55:43
#164 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9370
From: Unknown

@Fab

Thanks for tests!


Can you compare Quake II for both systems? I think that Q2 for OS4 is more optimised than current port of Q3.

How fast is DvPlayer?

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maurensen 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 20:09:51
#165 ]
Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2009
Posts: 18
From: Padova, Italy

@Fab
Many thanx for your tests in real world applications.
And apart from speed tests I think that other winning areas for MorphOS from an user pov would be comparing Ambient vs Workbench and MuiShell vs OS4 shell. These are another 2 easy shots...
Ciao.

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KimmoK 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 20:40:27
#166 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Clearly, MOS team should port Ambient to AOS4.x.

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maurensen 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 20:47:56
#167 ]
Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2009
Posts: 18
From: Padova, Italy

@KimmoK
But...
if you port Ambient to OS4 then we have OS4=MorphOS. AARGHH this IS evil! 666!

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Hans 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 21:50:57
#168 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@Fab

Quote:

Fab wrote:

...

That said, that Q3 test actually benchmarks the OS 3D driver performance here. The MorphOS Q3 port is indeed untouched on the OpenGL part, and i'd assume it's the same for the OS4 port. So what's really measured is the underlying OS component there, which is mainly the opengl layer. There's a reason why Q3 is often used as a benchmark.

Now, i have another "OS" test which comes to my mind, but it's not too fair:
Consider a golded:bak/ Golded backup directory containing 4000 files (SFS).

On OS4 Workbench, displaying the 4000 files in list mode took almost 30 seconds and needed 200MB RAM (and there's a refresh bug with so many files when selecting files, btw).
On MorphOS, listing the same directory took about 2 seconds and needed 3MB RAM.

But I perfectly know Workbench hasn't been really improved in that area since 3.x ages, so that's a cheap shot. :)


Those are two parts of the OS that are earmarked for replacement. We know that they're not as good as they should be. Do you have any tests for other OS components?

Hans

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wegster 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 22:08:25
#169 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@Hans

filesystem test, both on Peg2? MOS has an old SFS IIRC, vs 'newest' os4 sfs + the other one?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 23:21:08
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@Fab

Quote:

Now, i have another "OS" test which comes to my mind, but it's not too fair:
Consider a golded:bak/ Golded backup directory containing 4000 files (SFS).

On OS4 Workbench, displaying the 4000 files in list mode took almost 30 seconds and needed 200MB RAM (and there's a refresh bug with so many files when selecting files, btw).
On MorphOS, listing the same directory took about 2 seconds and needed 3MB RAM.


Well Workbech identify files by opening etch file and look inside to check what type of files they are, also I get the impression that Workbench keeps a copy of etch icon even if they are the same for two files or more files, when the icon is 32bit then that takes a lot of memory.

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kiero 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 23:27:47
#171 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Apr-2004
Posts: 84
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

"Well Workbech identify files by opening etch file and look inside to check what type of files they are"

Ambient does exacly the same.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 16-Feb-2009 23:55:30
#172 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@kiero

From the videos I have seen MorphOS uses different technique for cleaning up icons, I believe it uses a fixed matrix x,y number of pixels between etc icon, whiles AmigaOS4 tries to fit icons depending on icon width and height, and filename lengths in pixels.

The different types of display techniques might explain some of slowdowns.

When I have lots of files in directory I normal display content as list, to speed things up, or use Directory Opus 4, to copy move files.

I like the slow way AmigaOS does it when I have where few icons (20 icons) and like organize things, but on directories whit lots of files, it can become over complicated.

I have also notices that Scalos for OS4.x (the workbench replacement) is a lot faster then then Workbench at displaying lots of files and preview images,

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kiero 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 0:02:50
#173 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Apr-2004
Posts: 84
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

"From the videos I have seen MorphOS uses different technique for cleaning up icons, I believe it uses a fixed matrix x,y number of pixels between etc icon, whiles AmigaOS4 tries to fit icons depending on icon width and height, and filename lengths in pixels."

Fab's test was about list mode, not icon mode. Icon view is obviously bit slower.

"The different types of display techniques might explain some of slowdowns."

There is no complicated layout in list mode. maybe he could do same test in icon mode and post timing/memory results.

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Leo 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 0:33:45
#174 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

What about some more benchmarks using MorphOS/OS4Emu and OS4 ?

This way there wouldn't be any excuse "the application isn't the same", etc...

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COBRA 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 11:41:20
#175 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@pavlor

Quote:
How fast is DvPlayer?


I discovered a few interesting things while testing DvPlayer on OS4-Pegasos2. Playback actually turned out to be slower than on my microA1, and after some investigations it turned out to be caused by two reasons:

1. The version of peg2ide.device which is included on the ISO contains a bug that it apparently falls back to PIO mode with transfers larger than 32k. This affects a lot of applications because pretty much everything on OS4 uses 64k buffers, even C:Copy or Workbench copy. The bug is already fixed and the fix will be available in an update.

2. The copy routine I used in DvPlayer to transfer the frames to videomemory was reaching the limitations of the AGP bus on the AmigaOne, however on the Pegasos2 a different technique is needed to reach the maximum speed. Using a different routine gave me a significant speed increase.

I think there are probably quite a few OS components (such as P96) which could be improved to give the best performance also on the Pegasos2, not only on the AmigaOne, but that takes time. The same goes for the Sam440.

Anyway, currently on my system when I play DVDs or VOB files with DvPlayer, CPU usage is typically between 40-45%. I haven't had time yet to install MorphOS so I don't know how fast DVD playback is there.

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Fab 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 14:10:11
#176 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

I managed to get a few more tests done:

GLQuake
Quake2
DVPlayer (running on OS4emu)

I edited the first benchmark post to show the test conditions and results.

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Zorro 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 14:35:38
#177 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2003
Posts: 1081
From: Italy

@Fab

Quote:
I managed to get a few more tests done: ... CUT


Great tests... it seems MorphOS is the winner today.

Surely, OS4.x is very good but, obviously, is younger and these results were somewhat expected.


PS - Now stop to lose time with these nice but trivial things (and the related bragging... ) and hurry to help finishing the Mac mini port !

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 14:43:11
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9370
From: Unknown

@Fab

Thanks.

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AP 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 15:15:37
#179 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@COBRA: Maybe this explains some of the test results. It seems that AmigaOS4 on PegasosII is not in the same way optimized like the versions for AmigaOne (or maybe SAM).

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Crumb 
Re: OS4 VS MorphOS on the same hardware
Posted on 17-Feb-2009 15:25:17
#180 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@Fab

It's a pity you can't add Linux MPlayer as comparison

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