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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
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eXec 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 11:52:29
#261 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 955
From: Burkina Faso

@SHADES

Now, you`we just managed to awoke those sleepy Dragons
which a eating "parrots" for breakfast ;)

Your post is mostly correct, but now there are those here
who are using Goebbels propaganda. Your post will be
massacred and fully turned upside down and used against
you in order to glorify their superiority as the "elite" members
of our small hobby community ...

You need to be more careful when posting anything other
than the current SAM/A1 ideology
The agents of the parrot elimination cult are watching ;)

All the best,

D.

(Added in order to avoid potential misunderstandings )
___

In this post I used the comparation above just in order to
stylistically represent the deep of the thought. In those
black times that type of propaganda was well known in the
whole world and some of the statements that have flew out of
this thread are incredibly reminding on the above mentioned
methodology. So there is NOTHING else that can lead to
any other stupidity like the one in one of the posts under,
where my thought was completely false understood and
in a form of a half baked conclusion published in order to
provoke and defame my reply.

I apologize to all that understood it false, therefore I wrote this
small explanation in order to avoid further misunderstandings.

All the best,

D.

Last edited by eXec on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:27 PM.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 11:57:48
#262 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@whose

Quote:

whose wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
Show me the stats if I am wrong.


Nobody needs to, as you have invalidated your pro arguments yourself. You wanna see? Here:

Quote:
At least on the x86 hardware that can be bought for under $50 (2nd hand), people can enjoy the AMIGA experience and using mainstream hardware that is actively developed for.


That is definetly not the target of all these fruitless pro x86 discussions. You propose to buy "old" hardware, which is at best half heartedly developed for, when most of the x86 supporters dream of brand new, absolutely actual hardware with "best" speed for a "moderate" price. You propose to buy old hardware, and that´s nothing else as the counter argument used in this diskussions ("PPC is dead, old slow..."). So, you have proven yourself the pointless argumentation used in such threads again and again.

Not to speak of all the other "supporters" who chose to constantly ignore the problems we will get with x86 hardware by referencing to Linux etc. without regarding to the fact that many drivers are still closed source and an effort from businesses interested in the Linux market (but in no way interested in endless discussing more-or-less Amiga interested people as customers!).

Regards


Why is it fruitless, you think it's more fruitfull on non stadard expensive, low userbase H/W? please explain.

My comments on 2nd hand Well supported h/w is just that. It's well supported and will run the newer h/w. It's cheap at $50 because there is so much of it around. I don't see it as a counter argument. It's plain as day. Supported main stream h/w is at the reach of the consumer. Not obscure high priced non supported h/w. You want to increase your userbase. Making it obscure expensive and old, well that's another thing all together and I would agree only then. Totaly different to currently supported and contiued to be supported H/W

Refrencing to Linux, yes there are problems, granted, AMIGA Os the same, there are problems. ATi are writing drivers for their H/W for Linux now and Apple. Development is gaining momentum because the paltform is viable for them to make some money without too much cost. The same would happen If AMIGA OS takes off like Linux has. That won't happen on low spec, obscure/non mainstream, high priced H/W platforms. Not in this day an age without billions of $ in dev and marketing.
We want to increase our userbase if we want to survive and that in turn will increase development as it brings resources. That's the entire point.

Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:17 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:05 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:01 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 11:59 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:04:29
#263 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9234
From: Greensborough, Australia

@SHADES

Quote:
Linux is free distro Ubuntu has heaps of code available for D/L with HAL documentation etc. how do you think they made the OS work on x86?


Not on everything. Ubuntu canb fail to install on Acer PC's. It boots but can't find the harddisk! So you have to stick the SATA in IDE mode and install it. Then when you reboot Linux doesn't start, can't find the HD again. So you have to manually find the boot line in grun and modify it after you find out on the net what it needs. Okay then it boots. THe screen size is all stufffed. There are no Linux drivers for it, NVidea in this case. They make their own, so then it has to be updated with the restricted binary only drivers. Install that, set it up and most it fine. Except maybe sound. Shut down and reboot. Damn! It can't find the HD again! It didn't save thre boot args. Have to enter that again, boot then manually now find the grub menu and alter the text to suit. But gee it boots slow.

This is a real world example. Even with a huge development community like Linux things can break and not all is supported.

The funny part is, Acer can even pre-install a Linux distro for you, buit if you want a (real) modern Linux with an actual GUI it won't work!

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:11:02
#264 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@Hypex
Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
Linux is free distro Ubuntu has heaps of code available for D/L with HAL documentation etc. how do you think they made the OS work on x86?


Not on everything. Ubuntu canb fail to install on Acer PC's. It boots but can't find the harddisk! So you have to stick the SATA in IDE mode and install it. Then when you reboot Linux doesn't start, can't find the HD again. So you have to manually find the boot line in grun and modify it after you find out on the net what it needs. Okay then it boots. THe screen size is all stufffed. There are no Linux drivers for it, NVidea in this case. They make their own, so then it has to be updated with the restricted binary only drivers. Install that, set it up and most it fine. Except maybe sound. Shut down and reboot. Damn! It can't find the HD again! It didn't save thre boot args. Have to enter that again, boot then manually now find the grub menu and alter the text to suit. But gee it boots slow.

This is a real world example. Even with a huge development community like Linux things can break and not all is supported.

The funny part is, Acer can even pre-install a Linux distro for you, buit if you want a (real) modern Linux with an actual GUI it won't work!


At least Ubuntu is being developed with help from current H/W vendors. At least there is mainstream interest in getting it to work with all products. Ubuntu will run on cheap available x86 H/W so it's also available to attract consumers who would be interested in fixing that SATA issue. Companies don't have to shell out excess $$ either as it runs on current and easily obtainable H/W that works fine with it.
I have Linux ACER servers at work, not all models have problems.

This code is mostly free to d/l for anyone who wants to help develop for Ubuntu. They even ask people to get involved for just that and it is gaining in popularity every day.

Point is, you won't get more users on AMIGA OS on high priced, slower, non-mainstream H/W. It won't happen, not these days. There will also be less and less interested developers because there are less and less users wanting to use it. Even a company would rather spend $500 less on a similar performing product esp if it also has support and continuing interest. That = development/better future products, cost effective.
Why can't everyone see this?

Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:23 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:15 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:14 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:12 PM.

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whose 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:25:43
#265 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Posts: 892
From: Germany

@SHADES

You still don´t get the point, just like all the other x86 supporters posting here. You win nothing by referencing to "well supported", as long as this support doesn´t include AmigaOS. You still choose to ignore all those x86 OS projects that are gone down the drain. What´s with BeOS? QNX? Where are their big successes and supporters? Where are all the millions of users and developers who buy 2nd hand hardware for using them? They don´t exist, it´s that easy. These systems doesn´t have won by utilizing x86 hardware, even in times when they were way better supported than AmigaOS on x86 ever will be.

Where should all those developers come from you dream of? Why should they switch over from e.g. Linux to AmigaOS, as long as AmigaOS isn´t like Linux? Why should actual AmigaOS users use AmigaOS any longer, if it is "just another Linux"? All your argumentations bite themselves, and that´s the reason why I call it fruitless. It´s all about "when", "if" and "possibly", nothing else.

Most of you don´t even have a clue what hardware support is all about, but you talk about it as if it is done with a simple "the OS runs on x86 hardware, all other things will appear from fresh air". It won´t. It never will.

It´s a matter of money, that other businesses are willing to invest, and all those x86 centric businesses have shown already, how willing they are to invest in AmigaOS. They won´t like to. Why should e.g. Intel invest in just another OS under a million of other alternatives for their very own platform? When e.g. Linux and its derivates are there for "free", with legions of "free campus developers"? There is no reason for it and a change to x86 won´t make a reason over night.

We have just one way actually to go, for good or for bad, and that´s AmigaOS on PPC powered machines. They are available and they are supported, no need to "hope" for some developers that "may" be willing to switch and write basic hardware drivers and such. Or for users that may be willing to use 2nd hand machines that are not top notch, when there is much more "powerfull" hardware available for Windoze, Linux and MacOS.

Last one is a very big problem you folks seem to ignore, too. People won´t like to buy 2nd choice. They want 1st choice of what is available, and that´s PPC based machines for AmigaOS. All those people complaining about it won´t buy 2nd hand x86 machines for AmigaOS, too, even if it would be available for this machines. They will continue to complain and to buy not, because their newest super-duper-GHz-GB-machine isn´t fully supported and won´t be fully supported ever by best chance.

Regards

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SpaceDruid 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:34:50
#266 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@whose

Quote:

Not to speak of all the other "supporters" who chose to constantly ignore the problems we will get with x86 hardware by referencing to Linux etc. without regarding to the fact that many drivers are still closed source and SNIP - blah blah blah, problems, problems, problems


Yeah sure there are problems porting to x86 and it won't happen quickly. But it HAS to happen someday. Any other option is just fools gold IMHO.

Yeah there are problems. But there are even bigger problems retaining the status quo. Namely, that there won't be anyone left here to make further development worthwhile, even as a hobby.

There are reasons why this subject keeps getting brought up time and again. And its not by the same people. Look at any of the comments sections on any news story about Amiga or OS4 on any of the mainstream websites and you'll see lots of interest, right upto the point when they see what hardware choices they have.

The longer we keep our heads in the sand bringing up all the reasons to keep our heads under, the more we suffocate until Amiga is finaly dead.

Going x86 might be a hard journey, but at the end of it is a lot of old Amigans who would jump at the chance to rejoin the fold (including I should add, a lot of developers who could quite quickly fill in the software gaps).

Remain with PPC and watch an enevitable decline of those of us still here until the only ones left are not even sufficient to pay the hosting costs of this website, let alone further development. If Hyperion insist on sticking with PPC then they are either run by blind idiots, or they are not concerened with the users market and instead only intend to sell to the embedded market.

Google "VisCorp" and see where that option leads to the desktop user.

Edit: Though I should add that there may be legal reasons why Hyperion can't move to x86 in which case they should just come out with it.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:40 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:36 PM.

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whose 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:40:29
#267 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Posts: 892
From: Germany

@eXec

I find it very offending that you dare to compare e.g. me with Dr. Josef Goebbels. You don´t have a clue what you´re talking about if you compare pro PPC people with him!

Would you like to be called "propagandist", just because you´re supporting the x86 idea? I don´t think so.

Your post shows very clearly that you don´t have any counting argument against us "propaganda makers", which makes these discussion even more fruitless and you´ve rendered all the goodwill attempts of people supporting the x86 idea to void with it. Well done!

What´s so hard about a discussion based on facts rather than personal insults against different-minded people? What´s so hard about simply accepting the circumstances?

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Manu 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:45:57
#268 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

Could somebody order some more popcorn?

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hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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whose 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:54:08
#269 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Posts: 892
From: Germany

@SpaceDruid

I understand your point. Very good. But I still think that this change won´t change anything to the better. Not to the contrary, but also not to the better. We have no x86 base yet, we won´t get it as fast as we should get it. We have a PPC base. We can develop it further in a shorter time now, from last November on. The machines are there and they are sold.

Maybe we will loose many yet interested people, but IMHO we will loose them anyway. The reasons for my opinion can be found in my other posts about this topic.

The reason why pro PPC people are fed up with this topic is quite simple: It shows wishes and dreams, but no real solutions. Nobody of the supporters is able to show a way to get all the needed drivers or software like FF and OO, nearly all of the "proposals" refer to Linux, which is definetly not the golden way to get all those drivers and software. Proven.

Prove that PPC will die in short terms (and I say prove, not suppose!) and I bet that the x86 way will become a solution. Maybe a good one, maybe a bad one. But first: prove!

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 12:56:34
#270 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@whose
Quote:

whose wrote:
@SHADES

You still don´t get the point, just like all the other x86 supporters posting here. You win nothing by referencing to "well supported", as long as this support doesn´t include AmigaOS. You still choose to ignore all those x86 OS projects that are gone down the drain. What´s with BeOS? QNX? Where are their big successes and supporters? Where are all the millions of users and developers who buy 2nd hand hardware for using them? They don´t exist, it´s that easy. These systems doesn´t have won by utilizing x86 hardware, even in times when they were way better supported than AmigaOS on x86 ever will be.

Where should all those developers come from you dream of? Why should they switch over from e.g. Linux to AmigaOS, as long as AmigaOS isn´t like Linux? Why should actual AmigaOS users use AmigaOS any longer, if it is "just another Linux"? All your argumentations bite themselves, and that´s the reason why I call it fruitless. It´s all about "when", "if" and "possibly", nothing else.

Most of you don´t even have a clue what hardware support is all about, but you talk about it as if it is done with a simple "the OS runs on x86 hardware, all other things will appear from fresh air". It won´t. It never will.

It´s a matter of money, that other businesses are willing to invest, and all those x86 centric businesses have shown already, how willing they are to invest in AmigaOS. They won´t like to. Why should e.g. Intel invest in just another OS under a million of other alternatives for their very own platform? When e.g. Linux and its derivates are there for "free", with legions of "free campus developers"? There is no reason for it and a change to x86 won´t make a reason over night.


Last one is a very big problem you folks seem to ignore, too. People won´t like to buy 2nd choice. They want 1st choice of what is available, and that´s PPC based machines for AmigaOS. All those people complaining about it won´t buy 2nd hand x86 machines for AmigaOS, too, even if it would be available for this machines. They will continue to complain and to buy not, because their newest super-duper-GHz-GB-machine isn´t fully supported and won´t be fully supported ever by best chance.

Regards


If that was the case, people wouldn't run Linux.
I don't see a future for AMIGA if the supported platform is more expensive than what most can afford and will do less than what is already available!
the current offereing is ALREADY using most of the x86 designs at more cost! and older ones in an effort to remain out of the mainstream? how is that better? please explain how this is a better choice. Let's redesign another mainborad with sdram (old PC x86) lets see, AGP (old PC x86) floppy drive(old PC x86) but slap on a Tansmetta CPU instead, just to make it more obscure and charge $500 more.

Where's the logic, how is that going to attract users. Please show me how this will increase development. What kind of company is going to go for that idea! lol

Just because BeOs died and countless others did also doesn't mean AMIGA will.
Yep, Linux has managed to obtain a following, sure it's always used as an example, but it's because it did happen and the same is possible for AMIGA OS but not by moving in a direction that makes the already little community, smaller again.
Please explain to me how you see the more expensive, obscure, non mainstream h/w better as I asked before.
Your post hasn't told me a thing other than you don't think I am right.

Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:15 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:08 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 12:58 PM.

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eXec 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:05:43
#271 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 955
From: Burkina Faso

@whose

You just missed the point of my thought... It is about his methodology (propaganda) and
does not compare people with the guy as a person! It appears that if anyone says anything
what is outer PPC ideology, the guy that says is literally, crucified.
The same was in those dark times, everything what was out of the margins of
its propaganda was brutally removed..

I started this thread, roll back and read what sort of verbal creations i got, just because of my perspective of viewing the whole "situation". So, don`t pull out of the context and overreact, but instead of that read better 10x rather than come with such a stupid conclusion as the one above.

...mass silliness is being produced here!

All the best,

D.

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Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:08:06
#272 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1585
From: Unknown

Quote:

Linux is still developed and is now ready for mainstream use. It wasn't always the case.

Linux had memory protection, was not processor-dependant, and had no stupid legacy from day one... Oh, and btw Linus choosed to develop it for a quite common platform back then: x86. This allowed a lot of people to try/experience/adapt it to a lot of different contexts which explains how today Linux can be found in desktop, server, mobile phones, routers and many, many other places...

It's easier to develop something if you start with as less restrictions as possible...

Last edited by Leo on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:10 PM.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:10:17
#273 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote:
Quote:

Linux is still developed and is now ready for mainstream use. It wasn't always the case.

Linux had memory protection, was not processor-dependant, and had no stupid legacy from day one... Oh, and btw Linus choosed to develop it for a quite common platform back then x86.

It's easier to develop something if you start with as less restrictions as possible...


So what if it had memory protection. Just a feature.
Don't you mean it's easier to develop something if it's easy to get, is cheap, well suported and there's a ton of useful information out there to get it to work?

You are correct in that it's easier to develop something if you start with less restrictions, like obscure, slow, non mainstream and very expensive niche H/W.

There would be less reason to develop on that.

Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:12 PM.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:13:37
#274 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@whose


Quote:

Prove that PPC will die in short terms (and I say prove, not suppose!) and I bet that the x86 way will become a solution. Maybe a good one, maybe a bad one. But first: prove!


I wish I could prove the future market. I wouldn't have lost so much cash this last year from falling share prices!

The only way we can predict the future of PPC is by looking at the future plans so far announced by the makers of PPC. Nothing they have said in recent history concerns the desktop market because they no longer consider that a viable market. Until such a time that they do announce a Intel i7 killer, then I have to assume that is not going to be a direction they will take.

That means, all PPC based technology will be from markets other than the desktop which means all PPC based motherboards that are of use to Amiga will be underpowered and expensive.

In other words, the problems we face today will still here for the forseeable future.

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Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:13:58
#275 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1585
From: Unknown

Quote:

So what if it had memory protection. Just a feature.
Don't you mean it's easier to develop something if it's easy to get, is cheap, well suported and there's a ton of useful information out there to get it to work?

I mean it had interesting features and didn't appear like a dinosaur.

AROS is easy to get, is free and you can get some information for it... But it's based on an outdated architecture. That's the main problem as I see it.

That's what I wanted to add.

Last edited by Leo on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:14 PM.

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Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:20:57
#276 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1585
From: Unknown

Quote:

Prove that PPC will die in short terms

But there is nothing to be proved. It *is* dead.

The last (and I mean *desktop* of course) PPC supporter was Apple. And Apple has switched to Intel two years ago.

There is nothing more to say. Except for Server (that's expensive and not that competitive when compared with the new intel processors), consoles (that's custom chips you probably cannot buy anyway) and Embed, there is no more PPCs. And as the market drives the innovation, it isn't going to change anytime soon.

Now you can still build some embed PPC boards aimed at specific uses and not mass produced as a desktop computer is. So it will always be more expensive and/or not adapted for a desktop use. And it will always lag behind desktop computers in terms of raw power, usage, availability, and price. Now if it's what you are calling "alive", then fine. PPC is well alive...

By going x86, you don't have this problem anymore. It doesn't mean that the user base will magically expand and people will die for it... But at least you can concentrate on what's important: software, without wondering if Acube will be able to produce more than one hundred machines a quarter.. and wonder if the piece of code you spent so many time developing/testing can be enjoyed by more than a thousand die hard fans...

Last edited by Leo on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:25 PM.

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whose 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:21:38
#277 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Posts: 892
From: Germany

@SHADES

There is it again: Reference to Linux.

Linux isn´t AmigaOS.

You cannot compare the rise of the free un*x remake with a quite different OS you have to pay for.

I don´t get it, why people still insist on this false comparison. You cannot make the same way Linux has gone, as long as you don´t offer a Linux. See, it even don´t work for all Linux derivates!

Why the heck should it magically work for AmigaOS, which is way behind, as you tell? You can´t even come up with Windoze, Linux, MacOS, all running on this hey-so-cheap hardware. Why should people buy it then? You still gave no valid argument for this! You continue to dream of it, that´s it. Maybe this results from personal wishes to get AmigaOS and the hardware situation prevents this right now, but that´s for the x86 supporters only, I would say.

The people that are really interested in AmigaOS as an OS to work on bought A1 and SAM and actually use them.

So the argument that nobody will buy the very special machines is rather pointless. There are even people returning with the release of SAM and OS4.1 for (used) Peg2. Their number isn´t as high as it may be for the first months of a x86 switch, but there is a constant number you can quite safe build and improve upon (and that´s really important for funding!).

The last point is IMHO much more important than the pure hope of getting some developers more with x86 based machines, as you can hardly speculate about the impact they may have to the OS itself. Remember the Linux analogy. It won´t work this way

Regards

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:21:40
#278 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote:
Quote:

So what if it had memory protection. Just a feature.
Don't you mean it's easier to develop something if it's easy to get, is cheap, well suported and there's a ton of useful information out there to get it to work?

I mean it had interesting features and didn't appear like a dinosaur.

AROS is easy to get, is free and you can get some information for it... But it's based on an outdated architecture. That's the main problem as I see it.

That's what I wanted to add.

Ok, AROS may be easy to get but it's a port of an old, no longer supported OS. Like I said previously, that's like making Windows 95 Mk2 and trying to flog it for free. People won't use it. Actually, win 95 still had a huge userbase, it's not really a great example, still i think you would be hard pressed to get any development from it with the advances made in NT-xx by comparison.

AMIGA OS4x is not a dinasaur, it has a lot of new features that make it interesting to look at buying, but it's not SO INTERESTING that it also mandates you have to spend $500 more than current H/W just to buy a OLD pc H/W base with obscure PPC chip just run it.

If it is going to survive, it needs a userbase. Making things harder to get and more expensive is just not a good way to do this.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:25:20
#279 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 631
From: Melbourne

@whose


Quote:

whose wrote:
@SHADES

There is it again: Reference to Linux.

Linux isn´t AmigaOS.

You cannot compare the rise of the free un*x remake with a quite different OS you have to pay for.

I don´t get it, why people still insist on this false comparison. You cannot make the same way Linux has gone, as long as you don´t offer a Linux. See, it even don´t work for all Linux derivates!

Why the heck should it magically work for AmigaOS, which is way behind, as you tell? You can´t even come up with Windoze, Linux, MacOS, all running on this hey-so-cheap hardware. Why should people buy it then? You still gave no valid argument for this! You continue to dream of it, that´s it. Maybe this results from personal wishes to get AmigaOS and the hardware situation prevents this right now, but that´s for the x86 supporters only, I would say.

The people that are really interested in AmigaOS as an OS to work on bought A1 and SAM and actually use them.

So the argument that nobody will buy the very special machines is rather pointless. There are even people returning with the release of SAM and OS4.1 for (used) Peg2. Their number isn´t as high as it may be for the first months of a x86 switch, but there is a constant number you can quite safe build and improve upon (and that´s really important for funding!).

The last point is IMHO much more important than the pure hope of getting some developers more with x86 based machines, as you can hardly speculate about the impact they may have to the OS itself. Remember the Linux analogy. It won´t work this way

Regards


More nit picking on my responses without answering my questions.

lol Please explain anywhere in my posts where I said AMIGA OS "IS" Linux.

Tell me why would a x86 cheaper, easy to obtain platform make the developers that just love AMIGA OS go / leave?

Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:36 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:28 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:28 PM.

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Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 23-Mar-2009 13:31:30
#280 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1585
From: Unknown

Quote:

AMIGA OS4x is not a dinasaur, it has a lot of new features that make it interesting to look at buying, but it's not SO INTERESTING that it also mandates you have to spend $500 more than current H/W just to buy a OLD pc H/W base with obscure PPC chip just run it.

That's where I disagree. Windows 95 brought multitasking, plug and play, multimedia,... Windows XP finally ditched the old MS/DOS 16bit kernel base and added full memory protection, multi user,.. That's huge limitations that has been corrected. And these have changed the usage anyone can make about the OS. You may now run Windows for weeks/months without worrying about loosing your work because application xx has crashed. You may use it in school environments where multiple users can have their own accounts.

Now what does OS4 brings when compared with OS3.9 ? What has changed in the use you can make of the OS ? I don't see anything but speed. New themes won't change it. Neither will ExecSG has it has the same limitations of the first one. Neither will compositing. Neither will the WB, as it's the same anyway ;)

I'm sorry but I don't find any. And I am an OS4 user so it's not like I hadn't tried it...

Last edited by Leo on 23-Mar-2009 at 01:33 PM.

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