@Templario

I will disagree completely with you here.

Aros runs fine on most PC hardware including modern hardware, all it lacks is a wide range of drivers for the various components. I have tried to get this situation improved and I am making progress with some great coders out there.

However, I do not understand the discussion MOS and OS4 will not run on this hardware at all, period, and has very limited hardware support more limited in the case of OS4 which runs on only one hardware platform.

In time Aros will support more and more hardware but it is already miles ahead on its competitors AOS4 and MOS in the hardware it will run on. However, at least MOS team are working on supporting more hardware, as far as we know.

The reality is that time will tell and I am a patient man, I have waited 15 years to get this far and only Aros is working towards something I tried to start nearly fifteen years ago with the PCI Amiga project.

The only real problem Aros has is it needs the stability tightening up, but that work is actually pushing forward as I type this and may take a few months but it will get there.

All I know is that Aros will be worth watching.

_________________
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AROS made a huge leap in 2009, from a promising technology demo to something that was actually usable for real life tasks. My wish for 2010 is that they get to work on the user-experience to make it more complete, polished, consistent and professional. For example:

* a consistent theming system that covers Zune, Wanderer, window decorations (without the hacks) and contextual menus. I know there was work planned but I haven't heard updates for a while.
* a good Amidock clone
* work on completing/fixing Zune so that you can iconize windows, open any app in its own screen and so on.
* add KingCON features like scrollbars and autocomplete to the AROS Shell.
* a Ringhio compatible notification system (I only mention this because I think it's something that would be relatively easy to implement and help it keep pace with OS 4. I'm a fan of Growl on OS X)
* continued improvements to Wanderer

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 25-Dec-2009 at 10:45 PM.

@Templario

Quote:

Templario wrote: @clusteruk&@kas1e Amiga OS 4.1 and MorphOS also have more developers, although these OS only run on PPC machines. But AROS has problems with newest hardware and oldest, only it runs well, in PC machines prepared for it or under emulation with the VWMare.

Modern X86 CPUs includes hardware-assisted virtualization (such as Intel VT or AMD-V). VirtualBox and VMWare are virtualization software not emulators.

Last edited by Hammer on 25-Dec-2009 at 11:37 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 25-Dec-2009 at 11:29 PM.

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@DiskDoctor

Quote:

@Hammer It's not the same. I ran AROS on QEMU or VMWare already. But that's not the same experience. I wanna have it installed on my HD.

I have installed IcAROS on my (virtual) hard disk and modern X86 CPUs supports hardware-assisted virtualization e.g. Intel VT or AMD-V.

With multi-core CPUs, multi-gigabytes memory (4GB and greater) and AROS supporting one CPU, there are compelling reasons to use hardware assist virtualisation software.

Last edited by Hammer on 25-Dec-2009 at 11:49 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 25-Dec-2009 at 11:47 PM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@clusteruk

The problem is that AROS is not binary compatible.
Software that I made for the Amiga Os in 1992 works very nicely under the Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS, without emulation.
Dynamic translation of an aplication, is something quite different than the full-system emulation as uae.
Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS are great because they are compatible.
On the pc I can use a lot of very good operating systems.
Which are not compatible with the Amiga Os.
Why should I use an ancient AROS?

Last edited by phase5fan on 26-Dec-2009 at 01:22 AM.

@phase5fan

You don't have to use Aros.

And I have played with this emulation layer and full virtual machine for 68k I believe is better.

Last edited by clusteruk on 26-Dec-2009 at 01:42 AM.
Last edited by clusteruk on 26-Dec-2009 at 01:41 AM.

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@phase5fan

Quote:

phase5fan wrote: @clusteruk The problem is that AROS is not binary compatible. Software that I made for the Amiga Os in 1992 works very nicely under the Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS, without emulation. Dynamic translation of an aplication, is something quite different than the full-system emulation as uae. Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS are great because they are compatible. On the pc I can use a lot of very good operating systems. Which are not compatible with the Amiga Os. Why should I use an ancient AROS?

X86 UAE includes JIT and it’s running on a platform that has brute force CPU performance.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

Quote:

Amithlon and uae on AROS emulate the full system. On Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS only application is translated.

OS4/MOS only run *system friendly* apps while UAE will run *everything*, from games to demos, and WB applications.

Worst, any badly written application may bring OS4/MOS down while a crash of an application in UAE will only bring UAE down.

If what you wanted was to be written, you would then complain that application xx doesn't work (because it hits the hardware)...

You want to be able to run your old apps transparently ? Well, I don't care about my old apps. What I want is new applications that take advantage of new OS features/hardware. UAE is fine for anything else.

Last edited by Leo on 26-Dec-2009 at 05:13 AM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: With multi-core CPUs, multi-gigabytes memory (4GB and greater) and AROS supporting one CPU, there are compelling reasons to use hardware assist virtualisation software.

With that, there are no compelling reasons not to (which is to say I agree with you).

My next box will likely have 16gb of RAM and a quad intel CPU, and this on a dirt cheap budget (sub $2000USD). With that much power it doesn't make sense not to.

_________________
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@Hammer

Quote:

SoC graphics? Are you refering to Intel IGP? Intel Pineview SoC is just a recent release.

It's Intel 945GM/GME I suppose.

_________________
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Quote:

Why should I use an ancient AROS?

Why should you run ancient applications from 1992 ?

_________________
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@phase5fan

Quote:

Amiga OS 4 and MorphOS are great because they are compatible.

I'll bite, how can you run 68K under PPC natively? There has to be emulation at some point in time.

_________________
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@Leo

When you use the system for real, you might want to run some system apps that have no replacement (yet?) on PPC, and the only acceptable solution is a seamless integration of the emulation, not some clunky UAE glue (UAE is fine for games, though).

But people who pretend to be amiga users just because they run UAE once in a while on their main Windows/Linux/Whatever system, well, they surely don't care about all this, of course.

@damocles

AmigaOS4 and MorphOS convert 68k in to PowerPC native code, using a so called JIT compiler,
the generated PowerPC code is now executed as if was native code, the generated PowerPC code have full accessing any system component that is fully PowerPC native.

68k code can be executed faster then WarpUP (PowePC) programs in many cases.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Dec-2009 at 02:49 PM.

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@clusteruk

I was thinking about installing AROS on the second hard drive (B) of a P4 2.6GHz computer with Windows on the main drive (A). It has more modern hardware that is possibly supported. To get to AROS I would just change my boot sequence in BIOS. I chickened out because I was afraid it would wipe out my Windows. Maybe somebody can tell me if there's any danger of AROS affecting Windows on another drive. Also will AROS work with a 1356 X 768 LCD TV using a HDMI cable?

_________________
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Quote:

When you use the system for real, you might want to run some system apps that have no replacement (yet?) on PPC, and the only acceptable solution is a seamless integration of the emulation, not some clunky UAE glue (UAE is fine for games, though).

Sure. But this very same emulation is what prevents both OS from going forward.

And in 2010 (so that means OS3.1 was released 17(!) years ago, even before Windows 95) I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that most needed 68k applications have their equivalent (or at even better versions) as native.

Not to mention that if you couldn't run the 68k app you want, this could persuade some developer to write a (native and better) replacement application.

ABox was supposed to be a transition towards a modern OS... If we get stuck in this transition, it isn't a transition anymore...

Last edited by Leo on 26-Dec-2009 at 03:06 PM.
Last edited by Leo on 26-Dec-2009 at 03:06 PM.

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@thinkchip

Quote:

Maybe somebody can tell me if there's any danger of AROS affecting Windows on another drive

I can't tell you about installing it on second hard drive, but i had 3 dual-boot installations of aros and XP and never got a slightest problem.

However, i don't even care if something goes wrong as i don't have any important data in my computer. But the point is; if the installation guies tells it can be done, i would go for it. Just make backup of important stuff like downloaded porn.... programs and try it.

_________________
May the force be with you...

@thinkchip

To be honest, I would not use your windows machine for this. If it goes wrong setting up then you may not get to your windows partition without some grief.

Run it through VirtualBox.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@phase5fan

>I want to use my old software under AROS, without recompilation and not in >UAE.

Have you try Janus UAE ?.
This look same as a embedded 68k Emulation when you install AFA on your AROS UAE System.You can then choose a font that look same as on AROS and you can use zune on 68k so your 68k MUI Programs look same as AROS native Programs.

Anything else than put 68k or a old system in a Box is bad design.

AROS use the UAE Box.Apple put there old mac OS in a Box and microsoft currently put there windows XP in windows 7 in a Box.And in the past windows 3.11 was put in a Box in windows 95.

THe put in the box avaoid that you are Limit by old API or break with new API compatibility.the old programs use the old OS Code and the new Programs the New OS code.

And its bad and you loose compatiblity when you let use your old aps the new API.

So thats the reason wy all Expeert OS developers put the Old System in a Box.sure maybe Janus UAE can make better to integrate more, but its possible look on windows XP on windows 7


maybe you try out on windows 7 windows XP.you can just start a program and it look as windows XP.
But because of AFA you can get in the UAE in AROS more system compliant look and its hard find out if its native or not

Last edited by bernd_afa on 26-Dec-2009 at 05:44 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 26-Dec-2009 at 05:40 PM.

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @damocles AmigaOS4 and MorphOS convert 68k in to PowerPC native code, using a so called JIT compiler, the generated PowerPC code is now executed as if was native code, the generated PowerPC code have full accessing any system component that is fully PowerPC native. 68k code can be executed faster then WarpUP (PowePC) programs in many cases.

@NutsAboutAmiga

And exactly how its this different user wise in x86? Do you really think that user care with what is is happening under the hood when the results shows him a faster emulation then it would have with PPC solutions?

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