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      /  x1000 is Vaporware
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PosterThread
QuikSanz 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 6:12:56
#261 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@AmigaHeretic,

Ya know, nay Sayers are starting dog everything around here. If you don't want or believe in it , why are you here? Move along, move along.

Some of us here are looking forward. You are looking in the rear view mirror.
If you don't want to come along that's great. More power to you.

L8r
Chris

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realize 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 7:37:45
#262 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

Well once again its a bunch of users speculating on things. I'm looking forward to the real announcement. Not the announcement about the announcement


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Leo 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 8:43:30
#263 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

Ya know, nay Sayers are starting dog everything around here. If you don't want or believe in it , why are you here? Move along, move along.

Why shouldn't he be here ? Simply because it doesn't blindy believe in some words ?

It's funny how people get rejected in such a minority...

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BigD 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 9:42:57
#264 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7347
From: UK

@QuikSanz

Quote:
Ya know, nay Sayers are starting dog everything around here. If you don't want or believe in it , why are you here? Move along, move along.


Yeah, good way to attract potential X1000 users Tell 'em to "move on"!!!

I think it's reasonable that some people are sceptical considering all the Troika and ACK rubbish over the years! Heck even the Shark PPC never materialised! We still know very little about A-Eon at present and many people don't trust companies they know nothing about! Only further information from A-Eon will ease the situation.

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Caveman 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 9:50:14
#265 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@BigD

But Hyperion never had anything to do with Troika,and ACK.. Did they? I do understand why people are sceptical,but all we really can do,is wait and see.

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KimmoK 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 10:10:32
#266 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@AmigaHeretic

" Extreme Engineering Solutions? They have only been around for 7 years."

To me they seem to have existed at least 13 years in some form:
http://www.xes-inc.com/press/030201.html

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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pavlor 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 10:18:00
#267 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9608
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Their cofounder even manufactured hardware for Amiga (it is in his CV in the About page).

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Leo 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 10:19:41
#268 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

But Hyperion never had anything to do with Troika,and ACK..

Sure. But they already were unable to deliver a lot of announced products: Worms Armaggedon, Majesty,...

Their biggest project, the OS4 port took 3/4 more time than the expected timeline. More than that, a lot of announced improvements haven't made it into OS4 because it simply was unrealistic (automatic stack enlargement,...).

And now, we're not talking about a renamed PPC motherboard, but a new design. We haven't seen anything running. Can't you understand why some people remain so sceptical about it ?

You have the right to be positive and confident about it, but people which aren't shouldn't be rejected: time will tell... But for now, we have very little proof.

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Caveman 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 10:22:21
#269 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@Leo

I am not positive or negative. I just watch and see what comes out of it.

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Salup 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 10:46:47
#270 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2003
Posts: 44
From: Sydney

@Leo

There is a middle ground you know. One can be a bit optimistic and have faith in the future, without being 100% percent sure that things will work out as A-Eon claims. The opposite though isn't necessarily to be 100% sure that nothing is going to work out as claimed or claiming that A-Eon are lying about the CPU (like AmigaHeretic has been doing a lot lately).

It is true that OS4 took longer than expected, however the product that was actually released was so much more than the originally announced. The initial port was basically supposed to be a ppc kernel running OS3.1 (or 3.9, I can't remember) through emulation.

So it's OK to be sceptical, however accusing people of lying and deceiving like AmigaHeretic has been doing is very different from being sceptical.

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damocles 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:30:49
#271 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Leo

Quote:
And now, we're not talking about a renamed PPC motherboard, but a new design. We haven't seen anything running. Can't you understand why some people remain so sceptical about it ?


One has to really wonder if it's truly a "new design" or a design that has been worked on by other companies which A-EON purchased and tweaked. What bothers me is the XMOS chip, it doesn't bring much to the desktop experience, why would A-EON bother to pay for adding that chip to the mobo because of the added cost to design and production which would increase their asking price. Now it's adding fuel to the scepticals since, AFAIK, A-EON has yet to give a solid reason why it's there. Much like the FPGA onboard the SAM440s, it's there because it's an embedded mobo being pressed into desktop market.

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BigD 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:46:45
#272 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7347
From: UK

@damocles

Quote:
Much like the FPGA onboard the SAM440s, it's there because it's an embedded mobo being pressed into desktop market.


That sounds like the crux of it. Lumping us with an embedded chip of limited use to desktop users and marketing it as a Unique Selling Point! Genius! Maybe the Amiga market IS learning from the Apple marketing machine after all!!

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Caveman 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:51:01
#273 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@BigD

You mean going x86,slap the Apple logo on it,and claim they invented the wheel,and sell the damn thing for double price of any other PC's?

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BigD 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:52:24
#274 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7347
From: UK

@Salup

Quote:
It is true that OS4 took longer than expected, however the product that was actually released was so much more than the originally announced. The initial port was basically supposed to be a ppc kernel running OS3.1 (or 3.9, I can't remember) through emulation.


Yeah, without the sources from H&P they would have had to have emulated AOS 3.1 and stopped there! That would have been a major step backwards and damaged the perception of the Amiga further!

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KimmoK 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 12:01:02
#275 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@damocles

Perhaps it's because TrevorD wanted it so, for him to participate in the project.
Does it need more reasoning?

Other than that, IMO, if there had to be something special on the board, xcore is a very good alternative (less bad than a harder to use FPGA, as an example).
It will give a few extra users (Trevor's Xcore hobby friends, at least).
And to me it seems that there exist more xcore users than Amiga users.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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KimmoK 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 12:03:03
#276 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@pavlor

To me XES seems like the best partner option beyond x86 mainstream mb manufacturers. If it is the partner.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Leo 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 12:12:37
#277 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

Now it's adding fuel to the scepticals since, AFAIK, A-EON has yet to give a solid reason why it's there. Much like the FPGA onboard the SAM440s, it's there because it's an embedded mobo being pressed into desktop market.

I agree. Maybe it is the case here too... The fact the SAM is an embbed mobo also explains why it's so slow when compared with today's industry standard desktop speed... and why it would be a problem if the OS could host good quality apps/games of today that make use of this speed.

Last edited by Leo on 17-Feb-2010 at 12:13 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 13:40:59
#278 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Leo

The motherboard is not slow, but the CPU/SOC is slow for CPU intensive tasks.

I think a lot more of modern apps could run properly on PPC440SoC, if they had been coded without wasting CPU resources. x86 & M$ has caused the mainstream to get used to sloppy coding.

(sure, why waste time in efficient use of the CPU cycles, when there's more than enough anyway, on the x86.)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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ChrisH 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 13:51:38
#279 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Leo Quote:
Sure. But they already were unable to deliver a lot of announced products: Worms Armaggedon, Majesty,...

When did they announce those? I know they announced a few game ports 7 years ago that never appeared, but I think that was more down to a change in their strategy due to market conditions, and a decision to focus on OS4 itself. They are surely CAPABLE of such ports, as their past history proves, so using this to bash Hyperion is quite unfair.

Quote:
Their biggest project, the OS4 port took 3/4 more time than the expected timeline.

Due to factors outside of their control, such as Amiga Inc being unable to supply the AmigaOS source code they were supposed to, due to Haage & Partner not supply the PPC kernel they were supposed to, due to legal disagreements with Amiga Inc, etc. And the extra time did allow additional features to be added. So using this to bash Hyperion is quite unfair.

Quote:
More than that, a lot of announced improvements haven't made it into OS4 because it simply was unrealistic (automatic stack enlargement,...).

I don't know about "a lot". Apart from auto stack enlargement being cancelled after being announced, what else has been cancelled?

OTOH, they have delivered quite a few things that nay-sayers said was impossible, such as virtual (swapped) memory.

Quote:
Can't you understand why some people remain so sceptical about it ?

Stop playing innocent, YOU are hardly unbiased, and we know to expect OS4 bashing from you. The sad thing is you waste your time bashing OS4, instead of praising MOS (but please discuss MOS in this thread since it is Off Topic).

Last edited by ChrisH on 17-Feb-2010 at 01:55 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 17-Feb-2010 at 01:54 PM.

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Leo 
Re: x1000 is Vaporware
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 14:10:57
#280 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:

Due to factors outside of their control

The bad design decisions they agreed on and thought were possible that were abandonned/changed afterwards because not possible surely have nothing to do with factors outside of control...
But to consider they may have ever taken bad desicions (which, btw doesn't change the fact they did a good job in the end) you should stop considering them as gods...

And please point me to recent post where I praise MOS... I'd be curious to see it :) Ask them if I praised MOS ;)

I'm trying to be realistic and not be foolished by announces. I also think pointing bugs/problems is more contructive than sending dancing bananas...

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