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Spectre660 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 11:58:20
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3897
From: Unknown

@

Its interesting to see that many Amigans hold the view that A-Eon and partners would chose a CPU option that has limited scope for future development.

Given the last 10 years or so of Amiga and PowerPC history I do not think that
most people would develop a Motherboard based on a CPU that had no future.

Also the way Trevor speaks about beta testing the new boards to make sure that no problem
exist and refers to the problems with the Eyetech boards should
tell you that he is aware of past problems of bringing a new motherboard to the market.

So unless they have gambled on the CPU and lost then we should be ok.




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BigD 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 12:04:27
#182 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6473
From: UK

@Spectre660

Quote:
Its interesting to see that many Amigans hold the view that A-Eon and partners would chose a CPU option that has limited scope for future development.


HJ Frieden although not able to give details of the CPU, was confident that additional core versions of the chip are definitely in the works and if the X1000 is a success a new model from A-EON would be released with a higher spec CPU!

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 12:07:28
#183 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@steril606
Quote:
Also I want new computers, running an advanced version of AmigaOS. I just would love to see more "cleverness" in product design and marketing. Anything else won't get the Amiga any new audience. The X1000 will be an awesome machine, and I wish A-Eon/Trevor all the success in the world with it, but if you estimate it will reach anybody outside of the diehard-Amiga-Fanbase, you are on the wrong way, my friend.


What I reckon is that before putting money on the table on more mainstream options (as in "Amiga-mainstream" not "general mainstream"), Trevor and co. did realize that the whole platform needs to be modernized.

So as a first step they are bringing out a premium workstation that will fuel that modernization. In case they get back (and then some) what they invested, they will take advantage of those modernizations, and use them on a product built for a wider audience.

I know, we would all like to see a 1 billion investment that could deliver all that in a few months, but considering the situation it's a miracle they are trying this slower route, at all...

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Spectre660 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 12:16:45
#184 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3897
From: Unknown

@BigD

Supports my point.
Those involved are confident of future CPU development.


Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Spectre660

Quote:
Its interesting to see that many Amigans hold the view that A-Eon and partners would chose a CPU option that has limited scope for future development.


HJ Frieden although not able to give details of the CPU, was confident that additional core versions of the chip are definitely in the works and if the X1000 is a success a new model from A-EON would be released with a higher spec CPU!

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gregthecanuck 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 12:24:07
#185 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@BigD

Quote:
HJ Frieden although not able to give details of the CPU, was confident that additional core versions of the chip are definitely in the works and if the X1000 is a success a new model from A-EON would be released with a higher spec CPU!

Well that sounds like the PA6T roadmap again. They had designed it to scale to 8 cores, I believe. Very interesting. Can you imagine running an 8 core beast? O.M.G. At least it wouldn't suck 140W like Intel's most recent generation.

This is definitely sounding like the PA-Semi follow-on company reviving the series as per the earlier rumous/news items. This company incorporates the original founders of PA-Semi. Very hush-hush.


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steril606 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 13:17:23
#186 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Oct-2008
Posts: 462
From: Munich/Bavaria/Germany

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
I know, we would all like to see a 1 billion investment that could deliver all that in a few months, but considering the situation it's a miracle they are trying this slower route, at all...


My point is not to spend more money than they do already, but to spend it in a more clever way, thus reaching a wider audience.

Marketing 101...

How many tries will the Amigaplatform have, before it dies commercially. I concur that at the moment things look a lot better than they did a couple of years ago, but still.

Getting a wider, and hopefully younger audience must be the most important goal for an aging community like ours.


@Gerograph: It would certainly take some vision and a couple of bold steps.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 13:39:28
#187 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@steril606
propose something "younger" that can be done with actual budget/situation and that at the same time is also a new computer running AmigaOS (what most AOS fans want).

I don't see much options at the moment...

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BigD 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 13:50:18
#188 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6473
From: UK

@gregthecanuck

Quote:
This is definitely sounding like the PA-Semi follow-on company reviving the series as per the earlier rumous/news items. This company incorporates the original founders of PA-Semi. Very hush-hush.


Do you mean 'Agnilux'? Weren't they bought by Google? Do they have rights to PA Semi designs?

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 14:27:55
#189 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@koft
so here you come out, a MOS user trying to discredit AEON in order to illustrate how good his chosen option is.


Dude, I've never seen MorphOS until last night. I wasn't sure what to expect, I found it impressive. The machine was cheap and I got to try the OS for free.

Quote:

First, you should understand that this kind of antagonistic behavior scares away many from your chosen platform (which is a shame).

Second, many nice MOS users would never want to be associated with the way you behave here (and don't play dumb, you have biggest collection of accepted Abuse Reports than anyone on this board).

3rd, The machine is aimed at AmigaOS power users and developers which understand perfectly the hurdles of development and can bear with no difficulty both the price and release date delay.

Here you are trying to sell ice to the esquimos (convincing AOS4 aficionados of who knows what) without any ability to do so, and disgracing the MorphOS community.

But if that makes you happy...

P.S
I hope that sooner or later you will understand that the ultimate demise of AmigaOS it's not a necessary condition for other camp to thrive, and that trying to discredit those you dislike ends up coming back like a boomerang



The rest of your rant is nuts. I have no "chosen" platform. I'm a classic user, an AROS user and recently a MOS user, I'd be an AOS4 user if it was more available for a decent price.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 14:41:39
#190 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@all

DAX wrote:

Quote:

@koft

and don't play dumb, you have biggest collection of accepted Abuse Reports than anyone on this board


Actually thats not the case. I just wanted to point this out so that it is not erroneously taken as factual.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Jun-2010 at 02:42 PM.

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Rob 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 15:04:21
#191 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6194
From: S.Wales

@BigD

I'd assume that Apple got all the rights to the PA6T IP when they bought PA Semi. They were not interested in what PA Semi were working on, but their previous industry experience was what Apple wanted so they could tailor make their own ARM core in secret.

Like Bernd said the PA6T would have been dead and buried if it weren't for some of PA Semi's very influential customers, to which Apple probably now have some very specific obligations.
Supplying these chips is not part of their core business and is likely to be seen by Apple executives as more a burden than anything else. I've no doubt that Apple will take any reasonable reasonable offer to get rid of it if they haven't already.

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Rob 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 15:30:34
#192 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6194
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Quote:
Do you mean 'Agnilux'? Weren't they bought by Google? Do they have rights to PA Semi designs?


I didn't actually read the comment you were replying prior to making my previous post.

You are right that Agnilux were bought by Google.


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Spectre660 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 17:52:16
#193 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3897
From: Unknown

@

My reading of the whole scenario is that Ben Hermans came across some good info
on a PowerPC CPU early and struck a deal.
A-Eon and the X-1000 and Hyperion and Amiga OS 4.x are the vehicles through
which he and others partners and investors will benefit.
If the result is a good hardware and OS platform then power to him and partners.
There will be many happy Amigans.
Even those of us on the "Low-end" will see the benefits.





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jas_mc 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 21:08:45
#194 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@koft

Although Dax misfired when he wrote that to you, it is a pen picture I can relate to. There does seem to be a small minority of MorphOS users who put off newcomers like me.

I mean I've heard good things about MorphOS, but I've only been on these forums for five minutes, and already I've got this mental picture where MorphOS is the "bully" of the Amiga world. The most memorable MorphOS posters are the ones who go around kicking sand in AmigaOS's face. Whereas AmigaOS feels more like JD-from-Scrubs or Fry from Futurama: a hopelessly optimistic, imperfect-but-loveable everyman.

I'm absolutely not trying to argue that those are fair characterisations of the different operating systems (clearly they aren't), but it wouldn't surprise me if other newcomers pick up the same vibe based purely on the noisiest posters in each camp. After all, most people who stumble across these forums are propelled here by nostalgia for the word "Amiga". If they arrive with that in mind, it's too easy for MorphOS users to come across as the evil imposters when a small number pick arguments.

Other dumb details don't help, like the fact that Amiga OS 4.1's default theme is bright and friendly-looking, whereas the MorphOS screenshots I've seen have much slicker - dare I say slightly sinister-looking? - black and grey themes. It's laughable, but when I picture the archetypal MorphOS supporter, I can't help but imagine someone who looks a bit like Wario, with a Mac Mini and a desktop theme devoid of love.

Is that fair? No, it's ridiculous, because it's a caricature of a very small slice of the MorphOS userbase, and I'm sure the AmigaOS camp has idiots too. But the noisiest, most fiercely anti-AmigaOS users really do generate that mental image, to the point where I personally wouldn't relish the idea of being a "MorphOS user" myself (whereas I do want to buy an AmigaOS 4.1 machine and install Aros on something else). Hopefully I'm just a statistical blip, but if not, then that's sad for MorphOS.

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Mechanic 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 22:22:35
#195 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@jas_mc

Quote:

jas_mc wrote:

I mean I've heard good things about MorphOS, but I've only been on these forums for five minutes, and already I've got this mental picture


Are you saying that boldly putting dill pickles into anothers
pancake mix can backfire and make one seem desperate, vicious,
and not worth associating with.

Many here have tried to get that point across. Maybe someday.

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corto 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 22:31:51
#196 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2004
Posts: 340
From: Grenoble (France)

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:

Its interesting to see that many Amigans hold the view that A-Eon and partners would chose a CPU option that has limited scope for future development.

Given the last 10 years or so of Amiga and PowerPC history I do not think that
most people would develop a Motherboard based on a CPU that had no future.


I don't see why the processor wouldn't be prepared for the future. It is already better than other CPU we use. So why start to be afraid about its future. A dual 64-bit core wouln't be the future for us who already enjoy our Sam440 ?

Amigans are always ready for speculation ...

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Rob 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 23-Jun-2010 23:17:30
#197 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6194
From: S.Wales

asymetrix has made a torrent available of some videos of a photos he took at VCF. There is one of Trevor talking to him about the X1000, he basically tells asymetrix that the CPU is PA6T in all but name.

"It's a 2Ghz processor, a 64bit power processor"

"It's never been used in a desktop before "

"It's only been used in military applications"

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stedy 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 24-Jun-2010 0:04:26
#198 ]
Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2005
Posts: 35
From: London, England

@fairlanefastback

I can't find the CPU in the PCI listings, that should show up. The device A000, has the device code of 8, indicating it is the 8th device on the PCIe bus. If it is the root complex, it should be the first device.

Complete list of PA6T-1682M PCI codes


P.A. Semi (VendorId 0x1959) PCI Device IDs
DeviceID Device Class Code SubClass Code Interface code
0xffff This device ID is never used.
0xa000 PA6T Power Architecture CPU. 0xB – CPU 0x20 – PowerPC 0 – n/a
0xa001 Host Bridge. 0x6 – Bridge 0x0 – Host Bridge 0 – n/a
0xa002 PCI-Express Quad-Link. 0x6 – Bridge 0x4 – PCI-PCI Bridge 0 – n/a
0xa003 SMBus interface. 0xC – Serial bus 0x5 – SMBus 0 – n/a
0xa004 Uart interface. 0x7 – Simple com 0x0 – Uart 0x3 – 16550 compatible
0xa005 SGMII interface. 0x2 – Networking 0x0 – Ethernet 0 – n/a
0xa006 XAUI interface. 0x2 – Networking 0x0 – Ethernet 0 – n/a
0xa007 DMA controller. 0x8 – System 0x1 – DMA 0xFF nonstandard
0xa008 LPC/local bus interface. 0x6 – Bridge 0x1 – ISA 0xFF nonstandard
0xa009 L2 Cache. 0x5 – Memory 0x80 – Other 0 – n/a
0xa00a DDR2 memory controller. 0x5 – Memory 0x0 – RAM 0 – n/a
0xa00b SERDES/LLM. 0x8 – System 0x80 – Other 0 – n/a
0xa00c System and debug controller 0x8 – System 0x0 – Interrupt controller 0x80 – nonstandard
0xa00d Internal Endpoint Mode 0x6 – Bridge 0x80 – Other 0 – n/a


It is easy to fake a PCI config table or to screw it up, I know this from experience.

Maybe I'm mis-reading this, the way AmigaOS4 prints PCI info is different to the other OS I have used so it is possible that the codes have been misread.

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 24-Jun-2010 8:57:36
#199 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Rob

2Ghz processor ...
They are not sure if they are able to sell it as 2Ghz chip?

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steril606 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 24-Jun-2010 9:13:24
#200 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Oct-2008
Posts: 462
From: Munich/Bavaria/Germany

@jas_mc

Good post. I have very similar feeling about this. But on the other side, through the years I have noticed there a couple of good people and a bunch of Idiots in every camp, so in reality the it's kind of equal, with some tendencies for certain behaviours.

AOS: "We are the only rightful OS, everybody else is an imposter."
MOS: "MOS is faster/better/stronger, and we should have been the rightful Amiga OS, but nobody cares. AOS is ####."
AROS: "We are running on cheap and fast hardware. You don't."
Classic: "Let's use our old machines or UAE. Modern hardware is not Amiga"

Well, that's my observation over the last years. And, AOS4 is kind of the common enemy for all the other factions, so that's why they are getting the most flak. Kind of sad situation.


Can't be told often enough, we all played Speedball back in the day.

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