@Ruud

When working on any product you have to proceed with a vision. Vision does not mean chasing other products in the marketplace, i.e. trying to "beat" them.

It means taking your product where you think it will provide the best experience for your users and in turn the best return on investment.

Look at Apple (I know, tired example). They don't try to match anyone else - they blaze their own trail.

At the moment Hyperion is spending X amount of development capacity bringing up support for the new capabilities on the X1000 and Sam460ex platforms. This takes resources away from projects such as improving the workbench. Adding multi-core support is a huge product differentiator.

It is all trade-offs. You can never make everyone happy.

@Ruud

What gregthecanuck said, Rogue was trying to tell us that.

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@eliyahu
I personally think that such people are in the minority.
Those few miniority is sadly very visible though and it is mostly the same usernames showing up in such flamewar threads.
Makes me kinda wish there was a bit more strict moderation when it comes to users who post only just to troll.

I think it has gotten alot better over the years though.

Edit: I personally wish we could just work more together to increase compatibility between platforms as well as share code. As it is now it seems like we have seperate project on each amiga platform even for same type of software/apps. Development could have been alot faster if each side helped each other out a bit more instead of wasting resources on doing something twice.

Last edited by Tomas on 29-Jul-2010 at 12:27 AM.

@Rogue

Quote:

That is exactly the "ein platform, ein community" drivel that Opi referred to.

Lately I realized I prefer three communities that are happy and have 1000 participating people than a community of 5000 people where no one is happy at the end. How would you convince MUI fans to switch to Reaction and vice versa? Workbench vs. Ambient? The list can go on and on.

AmigaOS and MorphOS drifted apart. It was continental drift and it's rather irreversible.

But I'm still all about discussion NG systems. Common heritage is hard to shed.

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@opi

Quote:

How would you convince MUI fans to switch to Reaction and vice versa?

I realise it's a bottom-up approach and thus the wrong way to (re-)design something, but the only way to get MUI and Reaction/Gadtools to approach one another is for each to accept some of the other's "better" features and add corresponding functions to its API.

Since neither camp needs to do that at the moment, it ain't bloody likely.

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tony

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@all

Gees.... i always enjoyed a good red vs blue fight, but this topic is not even remotely interesting. Why do people attack Rogue?

@ruude
Do you really think you should teach rogue how to do his job?

@valis
Rogue explained: if you don't like it, don't buy it! So what's the problem here? I don't like OS4, I will not buy it, but still appreciate the effort and look forward to Timberwolf.

If this topic was about how to stop trolling, it's totally gone other way around. You should create something like 'Why MOS is faster than OS4' or 'OS4 will always have more users than MOS' or 'AROS will win because there can be only one' etc... and I will gladly participate


Men... you broke all the fun, trolling is not interesting as it once was

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Quote:

There are two teams making a product

My point is that the two teams are working on the *same* product. If you haven't (tried one of the other OS), maybe you should: not to see if it's better or worst, nor to see if it's better for the user (seems like you care about that), but rather to see that your team and the other one are implementing the very same things...

Oh, and no, I have no right, no right other than expressing my opinions that is...

And before saying "I don't like it", I bought it. Because unlike some other OS, there's no time-limited demo version to try out for free :) Btw maybe you should think about it: not because some other camp decided to do it, but because from a user point of view (and potential buyer) it may be a good idea...

So after all, maybe there are two camps: blue and red because no developer ever botherd to look at what the other team was doing... And angry users make them not look at it ;)

Last edited by Leo on 29-Jul-2010 at 12:59 AM.

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@tonyw

Quote:

Since neither camp needs to do that at the moment, it ain't bloody likely.

Those decisions where made by core teams, hence it's very hard or rather impossible to back on it. It would be equal to dropping your system. The only way to see some regrouping is by demise of one or two offerings and even then there will be users that would just drop their hobby instead of going to "competition". We saw it when AGA was released, we save it with PowerPC, PowerUp and WarpOS and now we're seeing it with MorphOS and AmigaOS. Amiga shed so many users that we can't really have any more deaths among us.

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@Srbin

Quote:

Men... you broke all the fun, trolling is not interesting as it once was

Your mom loves DOS!

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@Leo

Quote:

So after all, maybe there are two camps: blue and red because no developer ever botherd to look at what the other team was doing

I can assure you that is not true. In fact, I've been contacted about "asking" about such things. I think you get jaded by reading only the public face of each OS here, which can give you a rather pessimistic opinion regarding interest and co-operation.

As to "why" people feel they have to make inquiries in such a roundabout manner, I can only attribute that to the rather polarizing characters involved. I hate to say that, but you know it's true.

#6

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MUI is an alternative to reaction/gadtools, I thought.
MUI is much heavier than reaction, but both should be available as easily after startup.
Just as it is today with OS3.X.

@1970

Quote:

MUI is an alternative to reaction/gadtools, I thought.

MUI is not an alternative to Reaction on MorphOS.

Quote:

MUI is much heavier than reaction, but both should be available as easily after startup.

You're looking from classic Amiga perspective. I can assure you that MUI does not make dent in CPU cycles on any current computer.

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@Rogue
I have read through all this thread now and i for one agree with most of what you said.
I really appreciate the honesty and even feel more positive about the future now.

I still hope that the "camps" could leave the past behind and work more together though.
And i suggest you ignore trolls as they will always be around no matter what happens.

@Darth_X

Quote:

Darth_X wrote: How about teleporting both OS4 team and MorphOS team into the same room to sit down and have a cup of coffee together?

At least I saw some MorphOS-Team core member talkinging nicely with Trevor at the Essen show, dunno whether they had a cup of tea though, but saw many others who enjoyed a good beer. Cheers!

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

It's quite funny really. If MorphOs wasn't so good or OS4 was considerably better (I include both OS, software support and hardware support together) then there wouldn't be any Red vs Blue issues. In other words, both camps are to blame

Last edited by NovaCoder on 29-Jul-2010 at 01:42 AM.

@opi
Quote:

You're looking from classic Amiga perspective. I can assure you that MUI does not make dent in CPU cycles on any current computer.

Yes, I see no problems with the OS3 way.

Fell asleep early yesterday and woke up now, just to see another blue vs red thread on a Amigasite..... Hehehe...

I must say Rogue is on to something here. Do a realitycheck folks.
I am myself a MorphOS user, before that a Amigauser.
If somebody throw a sam on me, I would happily try it out. ;)

So many are aiming for this Amigadream (backwards). Why? Its old and not very usable today. But it had its charm.
We need to look forward and get the reality that the old Amiga as we know it is rather dead. Yes I know of the Natami.....
There is absolutly a future for both AmigaOS and MorphOS.

For now, they both have evolved so much that its more of a taste thing which you prefer.
I just use MorphOS, I dont develop anything but I do produce music here at home.
Lets say I want a juicy guitarsolo in a song, then I directly reach for my Charvel.
I would not even consider the stratocaster. It just tastes better in my ears.
The same is with AmigaOS/MorphOS today. Even if MorphOS has faster 3D I know people playing the same game on OS4 just because it "feels" better.

Its two diffrent OS and two diffrent kind of tastes.
Just leave it there. The history of Amiga is anyway so full of BS that it would be best to bury it all in the backyard.

Last edited by Charvel on 29-Jul-2010 at 03:58 PM.

@Charvel

I'm confused is Rouge in the blue camp or the red camp?

I don't run OS4 nor MOS. But ports of my software are regularly done for both these platforms. So I'm in a position where I don't have a vested interest in the success of one at the expense of the other.

I've noticed some OS4 users are quite fanatical in their hatred of OS3.9 and MOS. Eg. to the extent that if an OS4 program is available for OS3.9 or MOS they get really angry. Even the idea of someone converting one of their OS4 programs to OS3.9 is anathema to them. This seems to happen mostly at amigans.net.

MOS users on the other hand seem a bit more relaxed and not out to kill anything

Oh no, I can see the red hordes descending on me in their anger

Just to be clear: I'm not including Rogue in these "fanatics", I'm talking more about people like Almos Rajnai and those c*nts running amigans.net.

Last edited by Minuous on 29-Jul-2010 at 04:26 AM.

@Minuous

Quote:

Oh no, I can see the red hordes descending on me in their anger

/me pours honey all over Minuous & turns the red ants loose!

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