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      /  [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
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Poll : How should AW.net handle Commodore USA's Amigas?
Treat it as off-topic except in General Technology, Alt Amiga OS, & Free for all.
Create a new forum for Commodore USA Amigas.
Allow it to be discussed in Amiga general chat like any other Amiga (classic, AmigaOne etc).
Some other option (explain in a post).
 
PosterThread
Plaz 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 2:41:49
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1567
From: Atlanta

@paolone

@clusteruk

Seriously guys? If it's all about just getting more users here running x86 OS's on a box named Amiga, why don't we just convert the whole site now to a windows/linux site and be done with it? Tons of new members for you to talk to, and you get to drop those red/black/blue/purple/white camps at the same time. Win/win all around I'd say.

Plaz

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 2:42:15
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11092
From: Norway

@fairlanefastback

Option 1 or 2 or not at all,

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tonyw 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 3:03:48
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3160
From: Sydney (of course)

@fairlanefastback

I think #6 summed it up best of all:
Quote:

AW's classifications for forums is based more on operating systems.


We have several forum classifications for OS4 and others. There is a forum for "Classics", but it seems to be threads mainly about Classic AOS (OS1-3) rather than for classic hardware.

Let's face it, OS4, MorphOS and AROS all run on several different types of hardware. The hardware is perceived as unimportant, it's the OS that people support and argue about.

If we accept that basic premise, then why should we introduce a forum for a new form of hardware, particularly one that may or may not support just one of the "competing" OSes?

_________________
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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 3:05:07
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3945
From: Australia

@Chuckt

Quote:

Chuckt wrote:
Until Commodore USA cleans up their act (stop offending the users) and stop advertising the Commodore name on a PC then I'm not interested. All they are offering are overpriced PC products which I won't buy. Unless they have a corner on the market, I'm sure I can get AROS elsewhere. I can also get a PC forum elsewhere without the hypocricy of being a Commodore.

If they wish to manufacture Amiga products with custom Amiga chips then tell them we will be interested in talking.

If someone wants to have AROS on a Commodore branded case, it doesn't bother me but the case doesn't have to be the center of attention and it can get enough attention in photographs and things like that.

I can't help who comes to my door but Commodore is dead and I would more likely to be welcoming them on Halloween than on the message board. Until Halloween comes around, they can take off the Commodore mask because Commodore is dead. This is how I feel.

Unlike STI's CELL SPE or AltiVec/VMX instruction set, the instruction set in ATI or NVIDIA GpGPUs is "custom".

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:08 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:07 AM.

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Chuckt 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 3:07:45
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

@paolone

I think Commodore USA will be responsible for name brand confusion.

Do users here want to embrace Windows 7 discussions too?

Imagine having 1,000 dead accounts here when they realize this Amiga board is not Amiga.

Are you ready for questions about RAID and Overlocking? Are you ready for questions about the best graphics cards? Are you ready for questions about SSDs?

Quote:

And, like it or not, there are far more potential customers for those Amiga-branded PC clones than the ones willing to buy a X1000 or a SAM. Those customers will gladly buy a computer whose name is Amiga, and if they come here they will simply expect to be treated as legitimate part of this community. And that's because once there were Commodore Amiga computers with custom chips and AmigaOS, and tomorrow there will be Commodore Amiga computers with Ubuntu, AROS or whatsoever.

So yes, it will be a time for confusion. But a solution will be necessary, and closing doors or badly treating people that could easily become "the majority" in few months, is extremely short-sighted.

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 3:16:44
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3945
From: Australia

@Chuckt

Quote:

Chuckt wrote:
@paolone

I think Commodore USA will be responsible for name brand confusion.

Do users here want to embrace Windows 7 discussions too?

Imagine having 1,000 dead accounts here when they realize this Amiga board is not Amiga.

Are you ready for questions about RAID and Overlocking? Are you ready for questions about the best graphics cards? Are you ready for questions about SSDs?

Quote:

And, like it or not, there are far more potential customers for those Amiga-branded PC clones than the ones willing to buy a X1000 or a SAM. Those customers will gladly buy a computer whose name is Amiga, and if they come here they will simply expect to be treated as legitimate part of this community. And that's because once there were Commodore Amiga computers with custom chips and AmigaOS, and tomorrow there will be Commodore Amiga computers with Ubuntu, AROS or whatsoever.

So yes, it will be a time for confusion. But a solution will be necessary, and closing doors or badly treating people that could easily become "the majority" in few months, is extremely short-sighted.


Windows or Linux related topics should have Amiga related software ecosystem.

RAID questions also applicable for AmigaOnes with similar RAID controllers i.e. neo-Amigas are just like PCs but with PowerPC CPU.

X86 users doesn't have a monopoly on overclocking e.g. refer to Helgis's AmigaOne XE overclocking adventures. Who wants to overclock X1000 (e.g. 1.8Ghz to 2.0Ghz)?

http://amigaworld.net/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=584

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=19248&forum=4&post_id=298437&refresh=Go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam440ep
SAM440's vendor CPU overclocking.
-----

The best graphic card question is applicable for AmigaOS 4.X, MorphOS e.g. refer to past Radeon 8500 vs Radeon 9200. Soon you have Radeon HDs into the mix. You have different Radeon GPUs, bus width, memory module clockspeed, PCB quality and 'etc'.

Remember the CyberVision 64(S3 Trio) vs Piccolo SD64 (Cirrus Logic GD5434)?

AROS X86 has NVIDIA Geforce and AMD Radeon selections.

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 04:10 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 04:07 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 04:02 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:59 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:54 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:46 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Oct-2010 at 03:20 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 3:31:25
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3945
From: Australia

@paolone

Quote:

paolone wrote:
I have to disagree.

I'm sorry to be the molestor, but I can't really stand people that once said "AROS/MOS/Whatever haven't THE NAME, so they aren't Amiga", and now are saying the exact opposite: "eve in C=USA's Amigas have THE NAME, they aren't Amiga". Like it or not, the fact that they will have THE NAME, officially makes them "the new Amiga computers", even if they don't run the original OS or its evolution form Hyperion. Even if they don't run AROS at all.

And, like it or not, there are far more potential customers for those Amiga-branded PC clones than the ones willing to buy a X1000 or a SAM. Those customers will gladly buy a computer whose name is Amiga, and if they come here they will simply expect to be treated as legitimate part of this community. And that's because once there were Commodore Amiga computers with custom chips and AmigaOS, (SNIP)

There were Commodore Amiga computers with Unix SVR4 and AmigaOS.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 4:24:37
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11092
From: Norway

@Hammer

There is already a Linux forum on this site “Amiga PPC Linux” forum, maybe it should be renamed to just Linux, and maybe should add a Windows forum too.

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vrana 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 8:14:26
#49 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Feb-2010
Posts: 57
From: Australia

@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote:
Unless they're going to seriously partner with one form or another of Amiga like OS projects, I can't see how it qualifies any differntly than a typical x86 topic around here. Without additional info, it seems they best they can do is an x86 running Aros or UAE like so many others.

I haven't read every detail on CUSA, but I can't see by what measure they would hope to prosper by printing Amiga on an x86 case.

Plaz



This is pretty much what I was getting at with my other post. I classify the 'x86 Commodore Amiga' the same as I classify the dual booting Linux/Windows box I have sitting next to me, ie, it is an x86 machine and the hardware has nothing to do with the Amiga besides the name they managed to license off someone and put onto the case.

Now, if they decide to make AROS the primary OS for this new hardware (which I doubt as it would not really make much business sense at this point in time), then it will be classed as an AROS box, regardless of the fact of what hardware it runs on. Remember, AROS exists for PPC and x86 hardware at this point in time so it is the OS which is the important factor here, not the hardware.

As for the hardware vs operating system comments, since the original AmigaOS has splintered so much since the demise of the original Commodore, in a general sense it is the Operating system which is the major deciding factor. Having said that, hardware can be a factor as well, natami, minimig etc are all specialised hardware designed to run the original AmigaOS, and in some areas, extend on the original hardware. The Sam boards are for all intents and purposes largely meant for running AmigaOS4 etc but when it comes to the x86 Commodore Amiga, I really can't see where anything Amiga based about it except for the name it managed to license. If, and I have yet to see any evidence of this, they do give a choice to buyers to pre-install AROS on the hardware at purchase time or make it the official OS of the hardware to try and earn the right to the Amiga name, will they offer support the AROS developers or just use their work for free?

Enough of my rant but with the poll topic, at this point in time, I don't feel the hardware itself has anything to really do with the Amiga except for the name the licensed but if people running the hardware feel the need to install AROS, then I feel it should be treated like any other user who has an x86 box which they decided to install AROS on. If in the end this does help strengthen the AROS cause and development, then more power to AROS then.

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vrana 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 8:24:46
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Feb-2010
Posts: 57
From: Australia

@Hammer

Quote:


There were Commodore Amiga computers with Unix SVR4 and AmigaOS.


I own an A3000T as well as the tapes, install disks and manuals for the Amiga Unix that was brought out by Commodore. There are some major differences with this and the current topic under discussion; at the time this hardware and software was manufactured, it was done by the company which owned the Amiga, ran on the Amiga hardware and the software was a custom inhouse job by Commodore itself to make it run on _their_ Amiga hardware.

If I ran into problems with this hardware software combo, then I would go to an Amiga forum and ask about it since no one outside the Amiga community would have a clue what I was talking about except for the fact that I was running a really old version of Unix.

The current topic at hand is if the 'x86 Comodore Amiga' hardware deserves it's own forum. Remember, this is hardware which is just being onsold with the words Commodore and Amiga stuck to the front of it. Until I see the company selling this rebadged hardware offer some kind of constructive support to the Amiga community, then they are just sellers of every day x86 hardware.

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paolone 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 9:27:59
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1017
From: Unknown

@sundown

Quote:
You can play the name game all you want


I'm not fond of the name game, but I recognize it's really fun to play with: until the announce of C=USA replicas, other people really liked to use it to make me upset (me, and many other people). Now that I can play with this same game as well, all those people don't feel it funny anymor? I can't understand...

Quote:
Amiga Inc & Commodore are dead to most of us. To me, AI & c=usa are not part of the "real" Amiga community


Stop. That's the exact point: those companies are dead "to most of us", but unluckily this is a poor motivation. You can't kill your neighbour just because "to you" he was "already dead long ago", and the fact that you don't like Ainc and C=usa business models doesn't make them really bust out. They will continue with their plans (if those plans are serious) no matter if you dislike them, and - like it or not - we will have to deal with the results of these plans.

@clusteruk

+1. The best we can do is just convincing newcomers that AROS is fun, and they should install in onto a blank partition to really keep their roots in the Amiga philosophy.

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 9:33:27
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3945
From: Australia

@vrana

Quote:

vrana wrote:
@Hammer

Quote:


There were Commodore Amiga computers with Unix SVR4 and AmigaOS.


I own an A3000T as well as the tapes, install disks and manuals for the Amiga Unix that was brought out by Commodore. There are some major differences with this and the current topic under discussion; at the time this hardware and software was manufactured, it was done by the company which owned the Amiga, ran on the Amiga hardware and the software was a custom inhouse job by Commodore itself to make it run on _their_ Amiga hardware.

If I ran into problems with this hardware software combo, then I would go to an Amiga forum and ask about it since no one outside the Amiga community would have a clue what I was talking about except for the fact that I was running a really old version of Unix.

The current topic at hand is if the 'x86 Comodore Amiga' hardware deserves it's own forum. Remember, this is hardware which is just being onsold with the words Commodore and Amiga stuck to the front of it. Until I see the company selling this rebadged hardware offer some kind of constructive support to the Amiga community, then they are just sellers of every day x86 hardware.


I own an A3000D and sold it late 1996...For ROMs, still own a half-dead Amiga 500 and AmigaForever SE. Purchased AmigaForever 2010 Plus Edition.

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paolone 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 9:42:43
#53 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1017
From: Unknown

@Chuckt

Quote:
Are you ready for questions about RAID and Overlocking? Are you ready for questions about the best graphics cards? Are you ready for questions about SSDs?


Sorry to take your feet back to the ground, but none of the subjects you listed here is alien to the Amiga community. RAID configurations should be available on AmigaOne controllers (since they are the same controllers used by the PC world), Overclocking is something amigans have been doing since the years of first 68030 accelerators, graphic cards could be used and choosen for their features since TRG graphics had come to Amiga long ago, and from time to time I can read about amigans asking for installation of the classic OS on CF cards using IDE converters, which is basically a kind of SSD.

And, well, all of them are subjects that ANY modern computer system should cover, AmigaOnes and SAM included, so, what's the matter? Time for custom chips and forever-lasting configurations is OVER, and I don't even need to mention custom AROS computers using graphic cards like the recent GeForce GTX200 from Nvidia to prove it: just go to any Amiga related event and you'll be happy to meet any customized-towerized-modded Amiga hardware you can (or can't even) imagine.

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paolone 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 9:49:12
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1017
From: Unknown

@Plaz

Quote:
Seriously guys? If it's all about just getting more users here running x86 OS's on a box named Amiga, why don't we just convert the whole site now to a windows/linux site and be done with it? Tons of new members for you to talk to, and you get to drop those red/black/blue/purple/white camps at the same time. Win/win all around I'd say.


When I read replies like yours, I wonder why we just don't rename "AmigaWorld" to "AmigaKinderGarden", it would be much more appropriate. The day you'll learn how to deal with adult discussions, please try again.

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andres 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 9:52:53
#55 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 328
From: Firenze (Italy)

C=USA's PCs wont use AROS, but W7 or Ubuntu.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 9:54:04
#56 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

Some things to keep in mind.

Bill McEwen has pretty much left the AMIGA brand to us to do with as we please.
WE ARE AMIGA NOW! No matter what your take on that is.
2011 will *likely* see CommodoreUSA release AMIGA desktops, an AMIGA laptop and an AMIGA tablet.
This will lead to a renaissance in terms of the AMIGA brand.
Our AMIGA machines will have an unmistakable AMIGA flavour and should be competitive in the mainstream.
Don't expect us to produce cheap Walmart computers though.
Our motto and what we intend to deliver is
"Beautiful, High Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."
We want to recapture as much of what made the original AMIGA great as we can, and you, as forum members are in a position to guide this development to a large extent through your suggestions and an open dialogue.
You all know how to contact me if you would like to discuss your ideas.
Either PM me or e-mail me at lan@commodoreusa.net
We are listening, but your suggestions have to be viable in the mainstream, and not be purely hobby related. We are selling x86 machines....period. That is the only market we believe an AMIGA can flourish in without being hamstrung.
It is a given that we will never be able to please everyone in the community, at least as it exists today.

If things go to plan our website should be relaunched in November...but even then it will likely not portray our full plans which will hopefully be ready for product launch in 2011.
When we have shared our plans in full, closer to product launch, this poll would be more appropriate.

I do not take this burden of being the new bearer of the AMIGA flame lightly, and I will try my best to ensure that our AMIGA machines will be befitting of the hallowed brand.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 17-Oct-2010 at 10:05 AM.

_________________
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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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clusteruk 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 10:18:36
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1520
From: Marston Moretaine, England

Does this now mean we can have an Aros forum to support these new users

_________________
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vox 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 10:21:29
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@BigBentheAussie

And yet you will give no information on AMIGA users using AMIGA OS,
and you will be selling rebranded existing product in different case
with low specs hoping to get the money just for using AMIGA name.

There will be nothing AMIGA in your AMIGA name, at least anything new
that any curren`t PC cannot run (AROS, WinUAE + AmiKit). Your AMIGA
has not seen yet the day of light and there is no AMIGA presentation
at all at your AMIGA site and no AMIGA history. And as so far announced,
will NOT be with the product. Your "Commodore" "AMIGA" company
doesn`t reply to that simple request - sell your mambo jumbo deal
but provide info real AMIGA OS exists.
So AMIGA yourself you AMIGA!
Even support to x86 AMIGA OS AROS is not visible, so you do not contribute
to AMIGA community except by flamming, while you do spread classic propaganda.

Defenetelly ban the propaganda user and leave no trace of vaporware yet and even when realised

Any of the questions related to it if must can go to gen hardware for problems with integrated board or AROS/WinUAE if any problems with this.

No more mambo jumbo, so sad to see users like Persia,BigAussie etc.
Do it on your PC

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clusteruk 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 11:03:40
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1520
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@BigBentheAussie

So now I know how Apple users felt when Steve Jobs introduced Bill Gates over video link and said the time of competition is over between us. But at least Steve Jobs kept the MacOS, well actually he dumped that piece of junk and replaced it with a proper OS which is very nice but not my cup of tea.

We all know that these new Amiga's will be running Windows, because if you are serious business types you will not sell Ubuntu on a machine because nobody will buy it. That is no disrespect to Ubuntu just cold hard commercial facts. Plus if you sell in numbers, Microsoft will not let you, as has always happenend with Linux eg netbooks.

So we will soon have Amiga branded windows machines.

But

All of you should know that I wanted Amiga on x86 since the mid 90's and was doing this by making Amiga work with Windows with Siamese to make a multi OS compatible system. Now if C=USA are successful I will do all I can to make the new machine owners realise that there new machine can also run like a true Amiga with the correct operating system AROS.

Feel like a Guerilla marketing campaign appearing up my sleeve

Remember every cloud etc etc.

So best of luck to C=USA, just support the efforts to get the new users to entertain the real AmigaOS and one day do a system that is solely a true Amiga and all will gradually support you.

Steve

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: [Poll] Commodore USA's Amigas and Amigaworld.net
Posted on 17-Oct-2010 11:08:15
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1288
From: CRO

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
2011 will *likely* see CommodoreUSA release AMIGA desktops, an AMIGA laptop and an AMIGA tablet.


Hell YES!!! Bring it on!!!


Now I only have to ensure my POS Toshiba makes it to 2011

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