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Akiko 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 22:13:35
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 781
From: UK

@T-J

Quote:
Ah, yes. That. I presume this means that the accelerator actually physically replaces the 68k on the Classic Amiga's motherboard? Like I said, I don't know much about these accelerators. Well, the question then would be whether it would be cheaper to use a real 68k, or an FPGA as in Minimig. I'm sure it could be done cheaper today, though, if production volumes could be higher than they currently are for the Sams or the X1000.



I'm no expert either, but I imagine the R&D for a such a card would be higher than the x1000 and probably cost as much to produce.

Last edited by Akiko on 24-Oct-2010 at 10:18 PM.
Last edited by Akiko on 24-Oct-2010 at 10:15 PM.

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Rob 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 22:19:20
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6334
From: S.Wales

@itix

Quote:
Without the 68k CPU you can not run OS 3 on it. If you are not going to run OS3 anymore it could be better idea buy a new computer.


Most users would only want OS3 so they can have a WHDload setup for playing old games. If there was a fallback mode which allowed the Amiga's CPU access to the first 8MB of fast ram whilst switching PPC off then that need would be satisfied.

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ChrisH 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 22:25:31
#23 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@T-J
As some others said, and you yourself hinted, would there really be any point in such an accelerator? With the 68k turned off by OS4, the PPC accelerator + gfx card becomes the real computer, and the A1200 isn't used except for some I/O (keyboard, mouse, floppy drive, and maybe a HD drive). You might as well buy a Sam440 (Mini-ITX model, second hand) and try to fit it inside an A1200 (or C=USA) case! Not to mention that a Sam440 will be many times faster, far more reliable, quieter, use less power, etc, etc. A Sam440 would probably also be cheaper!

Someone suggested that it might have a use if OS3.x could still be run on the A1200's 68k (or if a 68k chip was included in the PPC accelerator). But I don't see the point of that! OS3.x would not be able to take advantage of the PPC's speed (the main point of the PPC accelerator!), so it would be relegated to playing classic (hardware banging) 68k games. You might as well do that using UAE (on OS4) or a MiniMig! Or even keep a vanilla A1200 around for such purposes...

Last edited by ChrisH on 24-Oct-2010 at 10:30 PM.

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T-J 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 22:25:42
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Akiko

I wouldn't be so sure. The X1000 is effectively a dual CPU design, since the XMOS is a full 32-bit RISC Microprocessor.

I'm sure it could be done for as much or less, since the Power side of things could be considerably less complex than the X1000 and still more than powerful enough to accelerate the Classics to 1GHz+ levels of performance, and the 68k side would be retreading old ground, possibly with a low-cost FPGA-type device.

Anyway, this is a question better aimed at A-Eon or ACube.

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T-J 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 22:36:05
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Yes, I agree with pretty much everything you've said there. The thing is, as number6 has hinted, the market for PPC accelerators is possibly larger than the one for true NG Amigas. For some reason, it seems people are more likely to want a Power Architecture computer for AmigaOS that slots into their A1200 case than they are one that stands alone. The fact that aging 200MHz cards still change owners for hundreds of pounds suggests there is still a market.

Weird, eh?

Its just a possibility to get a reasonably cheap, attractive entry-level machine onto the Amiga market. I don't know how expensive such a device would be, though. Or whether it would be possible to totally switch off the classic to keep power use and heat down until you want to use OS3's games.

If it could be done in such a way that it cost (say) £300 and had the classic machine switched off while the Power machine was in use, it could be more attractive as a nostalgia piece and attract tech-media attention as an oddball system.

It could also get classic users back onto AmigaOS hardware, increasing the userbase and injecting cash into the main NG Amiga project. But for now, its idle speculation. I'm just feeling optimistic at the moment. Caught up in the AmiWest thing, I suppose.

Last edited by T-J on 24-Oct-2010 at 10:38 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 22:57:34
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@T-J
Probably the best solution would be a PCI card (for plugging into an OS4 system) that allows some kind of integration with the A1200 via it's expansion port. With a suitable case, a bit of marketing as a "super upgrade" for the A1200, I think you'd get the best of both worlds!

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HammerD 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 23:17:15
#27 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 934
From: Ontario, Canada

@nubechecorre

Well OS 4.0 already uses the Mediator or Prometheus. Let's re-cap what Ben Hermans said in his speech:

-OS 4.1 for Classics to be released
-Radeon support
-ZorRAM Support
-Paging support

But let's wait for the official feature list from Hyperion. Since the product isn't out yet it is safe to assume everything is in flux until it's released.

Also please note that timetables can slip.

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Tomppeli 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 23:27:57
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1651
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@ChrisH

I was thinking the same. Put Minimig an a PCI card. Better than making a new turbo for dying classics.

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asymetrix 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 23:38:17
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 868
From: United Kingdom

@thread

interesting . especially future Minimig based systems or Natami, with a PPC accelerator card.

maybe based on Maxpower- G4/7447A 1.6 ghz

http://www.newertech.com/products/maxpower47.php

I do hope Amiga team considers the OpenPrinting standard, for new printer technology with XPS technology.

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting

also any document should be able to convert to any other format system wide using internal page description language.

Last edited by asymetrix on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:46 PM.

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Channel_Z 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 0:39:01
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 305
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

What would be the point of getting a very carefully and accurately made reimplementation as well as extension of the classic Amiga chipset, plus a brand new 68k-based CPU design, in a high-quality, multi-layered and surely quite expensive board solution which has taken years to design, i.e. the Natami, only to run an OS that switches OFF that very chipset and runs on a foreign CPU only?

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Interesting 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 1:04:24
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote:

This means that the most recent update of AmigaOS will soon be running on elderly processors clocked to around 200MHz with very limited amounts of RAM.




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HammerD 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 1:11:35
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 934
From: Ontario, Canada

@Interesting

Actually the Blizzard PPC can take upto 256MB of fast ram (note that all MicroA1's shipped with the same amount of RAM)....

Cyberstorm PPC is limited to 128MB fast ram (thats a limitation of the A3/4000 design), but with ZorRAM you can add upto 256MB of Zorro Ram per free Zorro Slot.

Yes, it's slower. But it could be used as paging memory when needed. ;)

Note: Because of address space limitations you may not be able to use 4 ZorRAM cards, because other cards (like your graphics card) use up some of the address space.

Last edited by HammerD on 25-Oct-2010 at 01:14 AM.
Last edited by HammerD on 25-Oct-2010 at 01:13 AM.

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opi 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 1:23:54
#33 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
There are so many more important things to improve or implement, and software to be ported.


None will give Hyperion a cash injection. This will.

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wawa 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 1:55:42
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

people, why bother??? you want os4.1 on amiga 4000? you wanna faster ppc accel?put a sam board inside! and leave the poor devs alone, theyve already got hands full of work and nothing is ready yet. a classic 4.1 is even the closest target i suppose, just copy the 4.1 sources over the 4.0 drivers and compile. customers will betatest it themselves.

Last edited by wawa on 25-Oct-2010 at 01:56 AM.

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delshay 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 5:38:37
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Sep-2008
Posts: 447
From: Unknown

thats very good news,and here is some more good news as some of you know iv being upgrading my cards and i have a *new* modification for the very first time and im looking for more improvment without overclocking.

Bvision upgraded to 250Mhz RamDac from 230Mhz RamDac this should also work on a Cybervision PPC cards.

Last edited by delshay on 25-Oct-2010 at 05:43 AM.

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JurassicC 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 10:12:25
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 1441
From: Somerset, UK

@HammerD

Agreed, I for one will be buying a copy.

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nubechecorre 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 11:02:05
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Nov-2003
Posts: 895
From: San remo -Italy-

@HammerD

I know that os4 use the mediator, but when i say: "make full use of mediator bus board" i mean i can use all my pci cards like i do under amiga os 3.x .. if i have to buy os4.1 to only use the Voodoo or Radeon, for me it is useless.. And don't forget, also, that me and many others final users had problem with the february update or final users that with the amiga 4000 weren't able to install amiga os 4.x at all.. So i'd like to try it before buying to see if i can install it.. Spending 120 euros and not be able to use it is not funny..


Last edited by nubechecorre on 25-Oct-2010 at 11:15 AM.

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JurassicC 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 11:36:32
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 1441
From: Somerset, UK

@nubechecorre

I'd like to be able to use a range of 3.3v cards in my TX too, like A1/SAM/PEG2 owners have the ability to do. We'll have to see what hyperion have planned in terms of PCI card support.



Last edited by JurassicC on 25-Oct-2010 at 11:39 AM.

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itix 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 13:13:18
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Rob

Quote:

If there was a fallback mode which allowed the Amiga's CPU access to the first 8MB of fast ram whilst switching PPC off then that need would be satisfied.


Doesnt sound feasible. You would need another controller to let A1200's 68EC020 access your 8MB.

And of course on the PPC side you need additional logic to access chip ram and custom chips.

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itix 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 on PPC-equipped Classics
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 13:18:28
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@T-J

Quote:

Ah, yes. That. I presume this means that the accelerator actually physically replaces the 68k on the Classic Amiga's motherboard? Like I said, I don't know much about these accelerators.


It doesnt physically replace your 68k but the original 68EC020 runs only at 14MHz and you have got only 2MB chip ram with it. It is enough for pre-1995 gaming but not enough for using OS3.

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