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      /  AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
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wawa 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 22:06:36
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Cammy

its all truth and stuff, but there is none in sight who would pickup the bounty. as soon as someone able to do it appears i will donate immediately. but as you see there is too much different interests involved. im not going to support anything that would solely be a gain for os4..

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Cammy 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 22:35:40
#42 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2007
Posts: 125
From: Australia



Let's be honest and think logically here for a moment. Eventually there will be far more users of Aros than either MorphOS or AmigaOS4, as hard as that may be to accept for some people. The bulk of development for new Amiga applications will come from the Aros side since it's so much more accessible and free for anyone to use. It's also progressing and maturing faster than it has in years, and it's attracting people back into Amiga development. Anyone developing new software for Aros will most likely be using Zune as the GUI toolkit for their programs. At the moment Zune isn't any better than MUI3.9 for OS4, but once it's updated to MUI4 standards we will finally have a modern, open-source GUI toolkit that can be used on all four Amiga operating systems making porting software between them easier than ever before. Any progress made with Zune is progress for ALL Amiga systems. If you want more new programs ported between OS3, OS4, MorphOS and Aros, this is the best way. It's called working together!

Not all of us are so biased towards or against one side of the Amiga scene, some of us really do just want ALL Amiga systems to survive and flourish.

Someone WILL take up the Zune bounty, perhaps even a team of coders. But it is a major project with very little funding so far compared to some of the previously accepted and completed bounties, so of course no one is going to start work on it yet! If this job does require two or three people to do the work, splitting the bounty up between them leaves them with quite an unappealing amount of payment.

Let's try to have a little optimism!

Last edited by Cammy on 10-Dec-2010 at 10:37 PM.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 22:36:57
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@Cammy

Well that's all nice, but how mutch time do we need for this kind of "bridge" ?

I see 550 euro and that's awesome but where is the first source commit ?

As OS4 user i need OWB only, actually i don't see the necessity for other MUI programs, also you maybe forget that OS4 doesn't use MUI as default toolkit and also you must convince someone to trash MUI 3.9 PPC + actuall fix in favour of a future Zune ...

All in all, is very easy to change the MUI4 deps replacing them with MUI 3.9 calls and port it directly

This is IMHO, naturally

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cha05e90 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 22:40:32
#44 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany

@Tomas

Yep - you are right. I must admit that this memory vanishing is the first time I ever observed now with wunderground, never seen this before. So, I really must have surfed the wrong places until now... Tested the site with Netsurf 2.6, no problems.

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Cammy 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 22:42:00
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2007
Posts: 125
From: Australia

@samo79

Keep sitting on your hands then. That'll get things done for sure!

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 22:50:57
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@Cammy

I don't say that, i say: why an extra work just for having OWB on OS4 ?

You are an AROS user i presume, so i can understand your point of view

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Cammy 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 10-Dec-2010 23:04:09
#47 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2007
Posts: 125
From: Australia

@samo79

I'm an AMIGA USER. I enjoy all Amiga systems, not just Aros. And you are right, I don't share your selfish point of view, I don't see new Amiga developments and think "So, what's in it for me?", I think "Great work, now let's share!"

Why is it that people with such prejudice always assume the rest of us are so narrow-minded?

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wawa 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 0:21:45
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Cammy

seems you still dont get this mentality. i have been witness of same attitude in many cases over and over again. alas mostly exposed by os4 users or devs.

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realize 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 0:50:17
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@Cammy

Thanks for coming into the discussion with reasonable things to say. I love that canyon analogy btw :) perfect.. Amiga fanboys have been waiting for the magic bridge forever.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 1:14:29
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@Cammy

Quote:
I'm an AMIGA USER. I enjoy all Amiga systems, not just Aros.


That's ok, i like AROS as well but i choose OS4 as my main system so i just don't want to wait 10 years to have a browser, for our system the quick solution is a direct port, not develop this, then
re-port this and develop this other one ...

The day Zune incorporate all the MUI4 functionality i'll be happy to see it on OS4 or whatever you want, but again actually my mind is into a quick solution

Quote:
And you are right, I don't share your selfish point of view, I don't see new Amiga developments and think "So, what's in it for me?", I think "Great work, now let's share!"


Hey don't be angry we are talking about computers

@realizeá

Yeah, better fans than troll, but no, i'm not a fan i'm a general user, nothing more

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realize 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 1:20:10
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@samo79

Fanboys are just as bad as trolls. You should know i'm not a troll.

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hotrod 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 1:46:56
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2986
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@realize

I can think of other suitable words other than troll to describe you

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redfox 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 2:22:46
#53 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1985
From: Canada

@Tomas

I tried the "wunderground" site with OWB and I can confirm that it eats up memory as I browse. When I quit OWB, the system does not release all the RAM.

I have a MicroA1 with only 256 MB of system RAM.

When I boot my system, I have approx 170 MB free/available RAM. When I start up OWB, I usually have about 143 MB available.

When I landed on the main webpage for wunderground.com, my available RAM dropped to 0 MB and then OWB released some RAM when it was finished rendering the webpage. I then had about 97 MB available. I clicked on a random spot on the map, dropped to 0 MB as before and 61 MB when that webpage was finished. Next click and I was down to 1 MB and I believe the swap feature kicked in because about a minute later the webpage rendered. I quit OWB and my system jumped back up to 122 MB of available RAM instead of my expected approx 170 MB available RAM.

Reset system to clear back to normal.

Since I started using OWB 3.30, I cannot recall hitting any other website that sucked up this much RAM.

---
redfox

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Tomas 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 2:41:07
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@redfox
Seems like i am very unlucky with the sites i browse then.
I have come across at least a few others that does the same, but nothing as extreme as that wunderground site. I dont think this bug was present before v3.29 though.

It has probably something to do with khtml core like someone else suggested.
It is kinda sad as it is the only issue i have with OWB 3.30 as it is rock solid otherwise and probably even more stable than firefox on my pc if it wasnt for memory leak issue.

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Fairdinkem 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 2:46:24
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 510
From: Victoria, Australia

@samo79

I share your sentiment on this issue, all the same what Cammy suggests is a good thing for the future but it is not the QUICK solution.

@all - thread

I think that we are getting side tracked with the whole MUI MorphOS OWB solution.

Joerg said if my memory serves me correctly (Please don't crucify me if I am wrong) that the reason he did not implement the MUI approach is because he believed MUI to be inferior and difficult to program than that of AmigaOS 4.1 REACTION GUI toolkit.

Joerg also said that NAPI pluggin is already in the code but not TURNED ON which mean Flash support through the likes of SWF or GNASH etc is possible but Joerg said he did not bother because he believed GNASH was to slow.

I know that FAB believes SWF is slow but he included it anyway with OWB which I wish Joerg would have done also with AmigaOS 4.1 OWB.

Truth is if NAPI pluggin is already in the code then is REACTION up to the task to enable features like pluggins and quick launch buttons and all the other things we like to see in AmigaOS 4.1 browser?

If the above is possible then it only stands to reason that this would be the fastest way to update our browser than go down the AROS via MorphOS and finaly arrive at AmigaOS 4.1 route not that I am against this however.

cheers

Last edited by Fairdinkem on 11-Dec-2010 at 02:49 AM.

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redfox 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 3:02:10
#56 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1985
From: Canada

@Fairdinkem and all

Did FAB and Joerg ever discuss any common goals for OWB?

Maybe the MorphOS version has some different features because FAB had different goals for the browser.

---
redfox

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hotrod 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 3:04:12
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2986
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@redfox

http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/getvideo

He's been aware this far so I'm sure he'll fix it if it's possible.

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Fairdinkem 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 3:31:38
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 510
From: Victoria, Australia

@redfox

I am fortunate to own a Pegasos 2 so I use OWB on MorphOS 2.7 and AmigaOS 4.1.

I can tell you they are both very different from each other.

MorphOS OWB looks like and feels similar to iBrowse but with a whole stack of modern browser features.

OWB on AmigaOS 4.1 in comparison feel like a window with browsing gadgets and a clunky side bar for launching saved pages.

Whether or not Joerg or FAB have spoken or collaborated or not I don't know but as far as I can tell.

Joerg simply tried to bring a port of OWB that was basic and capable of supporting CSS HTML 5 which he succeeded to do and nothing more.

FAB has continued to support his port of OWB to bring OWB to the MorphOS community and provide a browser with modern features and the most up to date support for modern web surfing experience.

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sundown 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 4:07:45
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@redfox

Quote:
Did FAB and Joerg ever discuss any common goals for OWB?

Oh yeah, & they didn't exactly agree or get along over the os4 version of OWB. This took place on amigans, around the time joerg quit developing OWB.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 11-Dec-2010 4:09:33
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@Fairdinkem

Quote:
Joerg also said that NAPI pluggin is already in the code but not TURNED ON which mean Flash support through the likes of SWF or GNASH etc is possible but Joerg said he did not bother because he believed GNASH was to slow.


Well, NPAPI was turned off because Joerg waited for the afxgroup code while afxgroup waited for Joerg's help, the result was that Gnash plugin wasn't released and NPAPI in OWB remained turned off

For certain video a collateral solution is create an HTML5 video support but Joerg refuse to do that, he also refuse to add a download manager so we are at this point ...

OWB on OS4 isn't that bad so i will not trash if it was mine, it's rock stable (altrough some bug remains, in GUI and in cURL), it's fast and so on but it need surely an extra work, beside that as we already know there is the Fab source ...

I can say that the general situation is good, we only miss developers ...

Last edited by samo79 on 11-Dec-2010 at 04:13 AM.

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