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      /  AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 11:06:59
#521 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@samo79

Its you who will ask Hyperion to add something ? :) (i am sure you know what mean "let's ask hyperion to add something"). Expectually when its about some "theme", which for sure not important enough.

And why you think, that "follow to theme" will cover all user-needs ? You already can read in many topic, that users prefer coordinally different stuff.

Users (all of them) after running of aos4.1, will have just default settings for mui3.9. Dunno what we can do there.. Maybe trying to setup from OWB itself, some mui settings for OWB only. But its again, very bad way, because users will want to change all what they want, and force them to some 1 theme are suck, because different users like different look.

The problem there is deeper, and i can split it on 2 parts:

-1: We have mui3.9, not mui4.0 - its limited, less features, less supported, more primitive and more sucky. There need to intorduce handling of true-color images for everything, for backgorunds, for gadgets, for everything. Then one major step will done.

-2: Create as many as possible mui themes when first step will be passed, and include it to os4 distirbutive (or, if hyperion will not want to do it, what is imho for sure), then upload it to some sites (os4depot, aminet) and users can use any theme they want.

And from our side we can only change buttons, animation, and other images.

In other words, at this point we all should understand that we have mui3.9 and not mui4. And its just luck that OWB can even already works.

Of course i also want to see our MUI extended, but we all know the stuff and from our side we can only do images and mui-current-themes (which we can include with OWB, so users can load it manually).

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 11:07:40
#522 ]
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9390
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@DAX

Quote:
(should be OS4.2 default IMHO).


I like default OS4 theme more...

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 11:09:53
#523 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@pavlor

Right. And some other ppls prefer default one too.

@DAX

Its just wrong to force users to some theme as defaul. But there should be a way to choice "modern and good looking" ones. When its all about Themes and ToolSets, there is never will be something which cover everyone needs. Because of that , something good (like mason ones, or if someone will do better, then his ones) can be done as default, and then, all want jerky as he want, with every theme/toolbars as he want.

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Daniel 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 11:10:37
#524 ]
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Joined: 6-Mar-2010
Posts: 239
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:
@kas1e Kas, the main/default theme should look good, asking to people "go and build your own graphics" it's a major no go IMHO.


Bare in mind the port is a hobby project not a commercial venture, stability and functionality should also be priorities. I think mason icons are fine and fit in well with the look of other programs and the OS. No button borders would be nice, but guess this can be configured in MUI?

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 11:14:46
#525 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@Daniel
Quote:

No button borders would be nice, but guess this can be configured in MUI?


You mean buttons for fast links or for navigation ?

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 12:15:49
#526 ]
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Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@kas1e

Quote:
Its you who will ask Hyperion to add something ? :) (i am sure you know what mean "let's ask hyperion to add something"). Expectually when its about some "theme", which for sure not important enough.


Yes i know

Quote:
And why you think, that "follow to theme" will cover all user-needs ? You already can read in many topic, that users prefer coordinally different stuff.


Well i didn't say that, what i said is that we already have a basic theme, is the standard one when we install OS4 for the first time, so it's the basic theme for all users.

But if we use the imagodespira theme by default we can have a better theme as default and related to this also MUI and Reaction things can be visually better, that's it.

About MUI at the moment we can try to ask Mason to paint somethings new for sliders and other graphical components but of course that's only graphics, the best solution of course would be "adding feature" on MUI 3.9 altrough i don't know if our MUI licence permit such improve ...

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 12:21:35
#527 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@samo79

Quote:

But if we use the imagodespira theme by default we can have a better theme as default and related to this also MUI and Reaction things can be visually better, that's it.


Did you mean include to OWB some MUI settings, which loads by default only for OWB ? That for sure will bad imho, because it will not looks as whole OS. But saying to users "lets change whole theme for OS", its also bad (everyone happy with their current themes).

Quote:

About MUI at the moment we can try to ask Mason to paint somethings new for sliders and other graphical components but of course that's only graphics, the best solution of course would be "adding feature" on MUI 3.9 altrough i don't know if our MUI licence permit such improve ...


I already ask, Mason limited by time now, and in general he for sure cant do anything good, because all those components (sliders,gadgets,etc) limited to 4 colors, and they even not so 4 colors, but someting like planes or dunno what. I even not know exactly , but you can check mui:images/defaul_aos4 for images.

Yeah, i also in hope to see support of normal images for all that components, but also do not know if licence allow to do that.

ps. btw, that post from mui-owb

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 12:38:00
#528 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@Daniel 
There is how it looks like without quicklink button borders:

look of quicklinks - link, layout of quicklinks - best fit

looks of quicklinks - link, layout of quicklinks - dynamic grid

That all changes from preferences of OWB itself.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 13:05:59
#529 ]
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Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@kas1e

Quote:
Did you mean include to OWB some MUI settings, which loads by default only for OWB ? That for sure will bad imho, because it will not looks as whole OS. But saying to users "lets change whole theme for OS", its also bad (everyone happy with their current themes).


No again i didn't mean that, LOL ####ing english barrier i'm italian and you are Russian

It's easy than you expected, don't need to touch anythings from the user side and could be normal look for anyone.

Just install the imagodespira or another good theme and check how MUI looks, now think how MUI can be if Hyperion use that theme instead the actually "crappy" one

And maybe time permitted Mason can re-paint some internal image for the upcoming MUI 3.9, the logo for example is the same of the old MUI 3.8 68k ... well better than nothing ...

Quote:
ps. btw, that post from mui-owb


Good, hopefully is now stable, it is ?

Quote:
There is how it looks like without quicklink button borders:


Yeah, looking a bit better as is altrough maybe a little separator between the contents ...

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 13:26:17
#530 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9390
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Quote:
There is how it looks like without quicklink button borders:


Looks good!

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Fab 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 13:29:32
#531 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@samo79

But it's already configurable in this regard.
It looks like that here: http://fabportnawak.free.fr/owbshots/general.png (well, it's a 1 year old version on this grab, but whatever).

Last edited by Fab on 23-Feb-2011 at 01:33 PM.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 13:38:36
#532 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@Fab

Hi Fabien,

Yes, but you have separators between the toolbar content, don't know if is it already possible on the OS4 port (or MUI 3.9), plus of course MUI4 gadget/buttons looks a bit better on MorphOS 2

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 13:42:12
#533 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@samo79
Separators also works on os4 version.

In general, all what is make me a bit "sad" - its close buttons. I hope we can change it on fancy close image. Maybe also we can change a bit looks of tabs (to make it more good looking).

Related to stability: looks like now i found issue which cause problem, and will try to test/debug all the stuff heavy.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 14:19:37
#534 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@samo79

with separators , without buttons, grid-best-fit options of quicklins

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 14:19:50
#535 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@kas1e

Quote:
In general, all what is make me a bit "sad" - its close buttons. I hope we can change it on fancy close image. Maybe also we can change a bit looks of tabs (to make it more good looking).

Related to stability: looks like now i found issue which cause problem, and will try to test/debug all the stuff heavy.


We use the Tapedeck_Stop image for close button now. You can change that image in prefs to anything you want Try choosing the close button from your OS4 theme skin!

What stability problem did you find??

Last edited by Deniil715 on 23-Feb-2011 at 02:21 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 14:31:16
#536 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@Deniil715

Quote:

We use the Tapedeck_Stop image for close button now. You can change that image in prefs to anything you want Try choosing the close button from your OS4 theme skin!


Yeah, that what i have for now. But the problem: we cant choice any image which we want. Just try it yourself and you will see, that for TapeStop, you can choice only:
-- Pattern (4 colors images)
-- Vector (4 colors images)
-- Color (there you can choice few colors only as well, but not image)
-- External (there you can use only those exertal images from mui:images/blabal , which, can be only 4 colors. And you not have there any "load image", but that is not big deal, if possible manually to use just 8/16/24 bit images , but its all limited to 4 cols for now). That is limitation of our mui3 about which i say before.
-- Gradient (nothing interesting here).

I think we just need somehow upload some .png image for close button (if it possible at all with mui3, to use png images in buttons). Slash say that he make some kind of "class" to do it for Epistulla back in times, but because he always busy, looks like all the hard works its again for the Deniil :)

Btw, by exactly the same problems (only 4 colors images for TapeStop/etc images), you cant use any normal images for all the other "gadgets" , like Buttons/PopUp, Buttons/File, Buttons/Drawer and so on. And because of that, our default mui3 theme looks a bit sucky. You only can create some 4colors images, put it to mui:images/someting, and use it from it.

I very want to be wrong, and someone can somehow show me how i can choice in for example "buttons/popup" or in our "images/tapestop" any 16bit image. Or even 128 colors will be enough (by good dithering algo, its pretty possible to make 128color image looks like truecolor one).

Quote:

What stability problem did you find??


I have running at background sashimi , and after a while of browsing, i got tons of output, and then freeze. But while outpu happens, i move scrool-bar at top, and can see that first crash come from WebIcons task. So, in hope that "is it" , i disable webicons, quit/run owb (to avoid creating of webicons taks), but then, after a while i again have lockup, so looks like its not because of it as well. But at this time i cant got any output , and i think that i should make a serial cable now. Looks like serial cable only one solution to catch all output normally.

btw, tested tabs, all is fine , but still some problems (will discuss it later :) )

Last edited by kas1e on 23-Feb-2011 at 02:39 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 23-Feb-2011 at 02:36 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 23-Feb-2011 at 02:33 PM.

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DAX 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 14:55:21
#537 ]
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@kas1e
ImagoDespira FTW!!!

LINK

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 15:10:15
#538 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

To make think clear about mui, there is 2 screenshot of prefs:mui/images:

mui3.9-aos4

You can see, that for aos4, all our inbuild images are very less-colored. In mui3 there we use some kind of ILBMMHD files, which are limited to 4 colors or kind. Those files called .mbr/mfX , and inside its just plain ILBMMHD files with all the limited stuff.

mui4-mos2

You can see, that on mui4 there is more inbuild themes, but that is of course not big deal, it possible to create as many as you want. But why new ones looks better here : because in mui4 , you can now use just .png images. They called as .mim (not .mbr/mfX as in mui3), but its just only a names, in reality its classic PNG file (what mean 24 bit support, and as result all the fancy gadget and stuff when and where you want).

So, if we will have support of PNG images in mui3, then, will be possible to use any kind of images, for any kind of gadgets.


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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 15:19:15
#539 ]
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Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@kas1e

It looks really better with separators, with buttons instead are not so good almost with out MUI 3.9 default skin, aniway for close button in tabs try those one

http://www.2shared.com/file/a6EzrOee/closebuttons.html

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 23-Feb-2011 15:23:59
#540 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@kas1e

Quote:
To make think clear about mui, there is 2 screenshot of prefs:mui/images:


Wow, there are some difference between the two !

If is it only a PNG question, at this point i think it would be 100% possible to ask

P.S.
Related to PNG closetab check this NoWinED grab

http://shinkuro.altervista.org/amiga/software/nowinedIMG/nowined_4.png

Last edited by samo79 on 23-Feb-2011 at 03:34 PM.

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