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      /  AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
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Kicko 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 20:35:20
#581 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5009
From: Sweden

i dont like the windows like x'es (red/green) either. Also the macintosh rounden are like someone said ..looks like a candyshop. ugly. too strong colours making the gui ugly. it should be something more that melts in to the background. nothing strong.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 20:49:25
#582 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@all

And how you all think we should change "close button" while all of you have tons of different opinions ?:) And what about gui buttons at all ? How it possible to "cover" all the need of _every_ user in terms of looks of gui and design ? My answer is - unpossible. So some default "fine for us" crap, and then everyone can choice all what he want and replace.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 08:51 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 08:50 PM.

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gerograph 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 20:52:47
#583 ]
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Joined: 5-Dec-2007
Posts: 901
From: Moers - Germany

@all

far out guys... you are discussing close buttons, even OWB-MUI is not even done.... Wouldn't mind having a Windows like close button, if this speeds up release date ...

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 20:55:02
#584 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@imagodespira

What about making one more skin for us ? I mean all those buttons, images, icons, transfer animations, etc ?

Quote:

@Topic: Nice work, hope for a Reaction based Version (dislike MUI ;) )


Dunno what you mean here. We already have reaction version done by joerg. That version on which we works, its Mui version of OWB on which works Fab on morphos (where is no reaction).

And we port mui version because its already have tons of features and all the options which user need (we port it, we not write it from scratch). So there if for sure unpossible to have Reaction version from Fab.

Maybe if Joerg someday will give sources to someone (with all necessary files for compiling) then it possible to works on RA-owb as well.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 08:59 PM.

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imagodespira 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 21:13:06
#585 ]
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Joined: 20-Sep-2009
Posts: 252
From: Germany

@kas1e

I mean features of this morphoes/Mui version in a reaction OWB ;)

skin: I don´t have much time, working on some projects. I also think if you need buttons, Images and icons that Mason is the right person to ask.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 21:23:00
#586 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@imagodespira

Quote:

I mean features of this morphoes/Mui version in a reaction OWB ;)


If only someone will get full sources with all necessary files for compiling from Joerg, and will start to update that version more.

Quote:

skin: I don´t have much time, working on some projects. I also think if you need buttons, Images and icons that Mason is the right person to ask.


That ones which we use now, already done by Mason (and for me they looks good enough, but as i understand most of users not like it).

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 09:30 PM.

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Tomas 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 21:25:28
#587 ]
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Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

Why are we already discussing themes anyways?? I thought it would be more important to get the bugs and features fixed.

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realize 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 21:52:11
#588 ]
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Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@kas1e

Quote:
How it possible to "cover" all the need of _every_ user in terms of looks of gui and design ? My answer is - unpossible. So some default "fine for us" crap, and then everyone can choice all what he want and replace.


haha yeah some of these guys are never happy its like a bunch of "soccer moms' sitting at starbucks complaining.

we are lucky to have this version coming out period. Who cares wtf the buttons look like?

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ChrisH 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:03:51
#589 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@DAX Quote:
Let Hyperion show a few designs (including ImagoDespira one, perfectly shown in your last screen-shot or HERE) and let people vote.

While I kinda like ImagoDespira's theme (*), I would be worried about leaving it to a vote... We might end-up with the OS equivalent of the car designed by Himer Simpson:


i.e. Something which people think would (in theory) be great to use or look at, but which in actual practice is terrible to use (or look at for a long time).

A better solution might be for Hyperion to pick a few "great" themes, and then offer the user the choice after installing OS4.

(* = I still prefer OS4's default theme, except for the scroll arrow buttons, where ImagoDespira's non-raised buttons look more elegant IMHO.)

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TiredofLife 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:07:19
#590 ]
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Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1688
From: Here

Quote:
"soccer moms' sitting at starbucks complaining.


As an English citizen, I object to that sentence more than any browser theme, lol.

Seriously, let the devs get on with producing a working product for now.
Cosmetics can come later.

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ChrisH 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:07:27
#591 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@DAX Quote:
Great! this must be the fastest progressing development ever!

Ports are a lot easier to do than writing something from scratch. Particularly when porting from another Amiga-like OS.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:13:24
#592 ]
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Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@all

All of you are right, theme isn't important at this stage of development, we can discuss about it later, anyone can write his preferred theme

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:17:24
#593 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@ChrisH

mui-owb for sure not "easy port". And there is tons of problems which i can't call "lot easer".

I even see on amiga-ng, that someone say "but its just a port ! almost no work! its only rewrite mui4 to mui3, and that all ! all the other apis are the same !" . Like its so easy .. that 1 day of work, no problems at all. No work, just some kind of one more port. ./configure and make ! no problems ! (strange why then no one do it before, if all that so easy).

Its ####ing hard really, i myself loose already 2 motnhs of everyday worring about. And deniil works on it every. And slash start to works on it as well.

We write new classes, new wrappers, new code. We fight with tons of bugs, whcih i see just first time. We fight with problems with compilers, with libs, with bugs in our mui3, with all of this, what was done by Fab & co for _2 years_ and all that code not our. We sometime just do not know what and where handles (because code are really huge) and we need to ask Fab where that and that.

Its can't be call as "just a port" for sure. And words about "ports a lot easiers than writing something from scratch" its not about mui-owb for sure.

Even more : that port, its even harder than writing something from scratch. The only pluse that its of course progressing faster , and better loose 2-3 months for porting, than 2-3 years for developing.

But its far away for calling "easy port because all the api the same". And even API which are not mui related , are different in some places. I not saying about problems with MUI rewriting, which are heavy enough.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:29 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:19 PM.

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DAX 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:31:59
#594 ]
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@ChrisH

I will certainly give you that it should (and hopefully will) be Hyperion to drive the improvements with leadership and good taste.
I turst they will take the best course of action.

@kas1e
I know those ones were made by Mason but how many years ago? (or were they made recently?) Maybe he can make newer ones?

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DAX 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:35:04
#595 ]
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@samo79
And yes, you are quite right this theme thing is getting too big (my fault too), better leave kas concentrating on more important stuff as you say.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:35:19
#596 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@DAX
Quote:

I know those ones were made by Mason but how many years ago? (or were they made recently?) Maybe he can make newer ones?


Few days ago. What exactly you dislike ? button for navigation ? Its just buttons from AISS (to make looks of browser "amigaos4ish").

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:41:23
#597 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@DAX

You mean this Mason theme for OWB MUI ?
It' only 1 week old !

@Kas1e

Yeah, i believe you 100% as i see you fighting everyday with this monster, and there are also Denill and Slash into this battle !

Last edited by samo79 on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:42 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:44:14
#598 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@kas1e Quote:
mui-owb for sure not "easy port". And there is tons of problems which i can't call "lot easer".

I did not say it was easy: But rather that it is easier than writing something from scratch... at least if you have some understanding of the elements involved.

If ports were HARDER than writing from scratch, then we would see rather less ports, and rather more "native" programs... surely? I mean, you wouldn't be porting MUI-OWB, if you thought writing Reaction-OWB (from scratch) with same features would be easier, right?

Ports mean: A lot of head scratching to get stuff to work. But a port also means: Not having to spend ages designing, implementing, experimenting, going back to the drawing board, refactoring, improving, iterating, getting conflicting suggestions from users, tracking down algorithmic bugs & design errors, etc.

So usually the headscratching effort is a lot less effort, unless the porting requires that you effectively rewrite the half program. (Which in the case of (say) the more complex Windows programs might well be the case.)

Quote:
The only pluse that its of course progressing faster , and better loose 2-3 months for porting, than 2-3 years for developing.

You actually seem to agree with me

Last edited by ChrisH on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:52 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:51 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:48 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 24-Feb-2011 22:55:34
#599 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@ChrisH

Quote:

If ports were HARDER than writing from scratch, then we would see rather less ports, and rather more "native" programs... surely? I mean, you wouldn't be porting MUI-OWB, if you thought writing Reaction-OWB with same features would be easier, right?


Nope.

If i know 2 months ago, how much its all requred to make a normal port of mui-owb, and if i will be good programmer (i am not), i will start one more from scratch. All the other usuall ports always much-much easy, because they mostly SDL/OpenGL + c/c++ , what mean totally "the same api" in most cases.

As you remember maybe, all of this starts because Joerg can't give to anyone normally full sources, for updating RA-OWB (but starting writing one more RA-OWB its just a mess), and because of it, we start all that mess.

But yes, i still think that better spend 2-3 month for porting (even if it hard porting, and all the hard stuff in the past already), in compare with recreating the wheel and make the same as Fab do for 2 years.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 11:09 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 24-Feb-2011 at 10:57 PM.

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itix 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 25-Feb-2011 0:00:20
#600 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@kas1e

Btw I was reading your crashlog posted to Amigans.net while ago.

Quote:

Dump of context at 0x020991F0
Trap type: ISI exception
Machine State (raw): 0x1200F030
Machine State (verbose): [ExtInt on] [User] [FPU on] [IAT on] [DAT on]
Instruction pointer: 0xDEADF00C
Crashed process: owb (0x669E3BA0)
ISI verbose error description: Instruction fetch in non-execute segment
0: 68C1E0CC 65381060 DEADBEEF 68C1E128 68C1E13C 6288AB9C FFFFFFFF 00000000
8: 00000000 00010000 11CE4A80 6FDD67CC DEADF00D 654AEAD0 00000000 00000000
16: 668FB380 7E9D2298 00000000 6205B59C 00000000 653817D9 640A84D8 61ECB418
24: 00000000 FFFFFFFF 68C1E090 68673A30 68AD0000 653810D8 6288AB9C 68C1E13C
CR: 59533E95 XER: E000BE6F CTR: DEADF00D LR: 7FFF690C


It looks like OWB is trying to branch into illegal address which is result of using uninitialized memory somewhere. In Mungwall, 0xDEADF00D is used to mark allocated but unitialized memory and in OS4 it is probably same.

You probably should check if LR (0x7fff690c) is pointing to a program code. Is there SegTracker functionality in OS4?

You should also try to retrieve stack dump. This does not look it was a buffer under/overflow situation.

Side effects are quite interesting:
Quote:

Trap type: DSI exception
Machine State (raw): 0x0200F030
Machine State (verbose): [ExtInt on] [User] [FPU on] [IAT on] [DAT on]
Instruction pointer: 0x7FFFB060
Crashed process: DigiClock (0x665E0550)
DSI verbose error description: Access not found in hash or BAT (page fault)
Access was a load operation


(Having slow day at the work today... and it is raining...)

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