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      /  AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
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Fab 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:19:47
#961 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@nexus

When i feel like it, maybe i'll add rearrangable groups for navigation, url & co. Of course it would be trivial to have the whole thing in one line, but i want to do it properly, and not just as a quick hack.

And personally, i hate having too short url strings. :)

@mrodfr

Due to Cairo relative slowness and WebKit complexity, it can't be as fast as Ibrowse, obviously.

Usually rendering a whole page with WebKit + Cairo takes about 50 to 150ms depending on page layout. So you can do the math if you scroll with the wheel for a 3 lines step : scrolling already displayed content is very fast as it's done by the blitter, and then drawing new data through Cairo+WebKit would take something like 30ms or so.

(it can even be timed precisely through an ENV var, as i've added some internal benchmark thing).

Last edited by Fab on 19-Apr-2011 at 11:24 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 19-Apr-2011 at 11:24 AM.

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:22:11
#962 ]
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Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@kas1e

Cool!

@nexus

I think it ise but I haven't tried it. It may be done in a different way that isn't MUI3.x compatible and crash. Don't know.

Edit: Apparently it doesn't, yet

@Mrodfr

I'd say on a normal CSS page it's between IBrowse and RA-OWB. But since MUI-OWB handle transparent CSS objects it becomes extremely slow on some pages, unlike RA-OWB which apparently ignores transparency. Or something like that...

It's over all faster than RA-OWB but not for all sites. But I mean they are both based on the same webkit engine so fairly similar. IBrowse can prepare a complete page as raw image data and just scroll it using accelerated 2D graphics basically, but that is because it ignores all dynamic elements that CSS and iframes can provide. A CSS browser can never be that fast unless you slam lots and lots of raw CPU power at it. IMHO.

Last edited by Deniil715 on 19-Apr-2011 at 11:24 AM.

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Fab 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:26:56
#963 ]
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Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

Well, i don't know what pages you tested with RA OWB, but by design, RA OWB can only be slower.

Then, maybe RA OWB uses a faster (possibly older) Cairo version that makes some thing render faster, but that's it.

Just for the fun, CSS can also be disabled through the content blocker :
you add a rule "http://*#stylesheet", and you get the good old Ibrowse feeling then (still not as fast, though). :)

Last edited by Fab on 19-Apr-2011 at 11:36 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 19-Apr-2011 at 11:32 AM.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:51:17
#964 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@nexus

Quote:

Is it possible to freely re-arrange the "controling elements" of MUI-OWB, like "navigation-buttons, url bar, quicklinks, etc"? I just wonder because there's so much space "wasted" next to the navigation buttons and it would be nice, to locate the complete line with the url-bar, google-search, etc. there.


Maybe Fab will add it at some stage :)

Quote:

As I said, it's just curiosity -- I don't want to complain


Complaining its a way to progress. I.e. feel free to say everything what you think (its in end just port, and all the wish-lists-for-todo going to Fab :) ).

For me personally its ok as it now, but sure, if it will possible to reorganize all the stuff as you wish it will be even better.

@mrodfr

Quote:

- How fast is this version (when scrolling an internet page with the mouse whell) ?

(like Ibrowse -> instantly, or like Netsurf -> move more slower).


I think you mean how big step of mouse-wheel scrolling, i.e. did you need to scroll mouse wheel a lot to scroll page a bit, or just smal move to scroll the whole , then the answer is : speed of mouse-wheel is the same as on my FF4 on win32 . The same portions of data are scrolls by one mouse-wheel move.

But if you mean how fast or slow it scrolls at all, then Fab and others already answer on.

In end of all , noone can expect that browser which have support for all the modern stuff with faster than the browser which are 10 years old , and not support 50% of all standards (what mean loads faster, displays faster, renders faster and so on). The "speed" of ibrowse in his limitation. When all the stuff will be added to it, it can be even slower that current ra-own/mui-owb easy.

@dax

Quote:

you'll start being pestered with "give us a beta" demands very soon


We still need to do some very latest fixes/changes, and then we will think about the way to release it fast (we have some ideas already).

@all

There is the latest video of mui-owb in action. Yesterday Deniil fix some bug with Tabs, and now just need to add mouse pointers , fix curl , fix one last small bug and that all. After that we will prepare ready-to-use-archive and will think how to release all of this faster (and in meanwhile maybe adding NPAPI support as well).


@fab & deniil

I think we just need found about 5-10 sites which slower than in RA-OWB, and check why. One of them are html5test.com.

ps. checked binary of ra-owb, and found 1.8.10 right under cairo words (the same version which we use for port as well).

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Tomppeli 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:09:11
#965 ]
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Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1646
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@nexus

Quote:
Is it possible to freely re-arrange the "controling elements" of MUI-OWB, like "navigation-buttons, url bar, quicklinks, etc"?

I thought always MUI gives that as granted and automaticly without programmers efforts !?

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Fab 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:39:15
#966 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

Of course not. It's up to the programmer to decide which elements should be draggable and where they can be dropped. What's granted and without effort with MUI is rather the Drag'n'Drop operation itself.

A tookit that would allow re-arranging any GUI without any constraint by default would lead to a total mess. :)

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:43:18
#967 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@Fab

Quote:
When i feel like it, maybe i'll add rearrangable groups for navigation, url & co. Of course it would be trivial to have the whole thing in one line, but i want to do it properly, and not just as a quick hack.


Yep i follow this feature request, maybe some configurable settings for 1.13

@Kas1e

Excellent !

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DAX 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 12:58:49
#968 ]
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@kas1e
The video was nice

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 13:10:46
#969 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9390
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Quote:
There is the latest video


Impressive!

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SOFISTISOFTWARE 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:17:37
#970 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 458
From: Latina, Italy

i hope Fab is going to resolve DNS problem of OWB, that problem is very boring, congratulations to all involved !!

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Fab 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:18:48
#971 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@SOFISTISOFTWARE

It's solved since a long time. Both in OWB and in CURL, in fact.

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SOFISTISOFTWARE 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:28:03
#972 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 458
From: Latina, Italy

@Fab

What ??? Are you saying the coming OS4 version doesn't have the DNS annoying problem ??? To understand, doesn't it stop if there is anything not load ??

Last edited by SOFISTISOFTWARE on 19-Apr-2011 at 03:31 PM.

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:31:35
#973 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@SOFISTISOFTWARE

Yes i presume is a Reaction OWB issue (only)

:-/

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Fab 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:41:58
#974 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@SOFISTISOFTWARE

In OWB, 2 years ago, i had moved whole network code to a dedicated thread to prevent it from blocking whole UI, but it didn't change the fact DNS could still block the network code itself. Which is why i had later implemented asynchronous DNS resolution in my CURL port.

But from what i can tell, current version of MUI OWB for OS4 has network threading disabled, and DNS resolution is also synchronous in CURL itself.

Last edited by Fab on 19-Apr-2011 at 03:42 PM.

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SOFISTISOFTWARE 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:18:00
#975 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 458
From: Latina, Italy

@Fab

But from what i can tell, current version of MUI OWB for OS4 has network threading disabled, and DNS resolution is also synchronous in CURL itself.

what a pity ! I'm sorry for that :(

Last edited by SOFISTISOFTWARE on 19-Apr-2011 at 04:18 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:20:59
#976 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@SOFISTISOFTWARE

Right now Deniil rewrite that part which are mos-specific in terms of network-thread , so, it will be enabled as well (and can be disabled from options if user wish).

About adding of asyncio dns resolver to Curl : fab loose his source codes of curl, so we need to reimplement them as well, to make it better.

But even with just enabled "network-thread", it will be better than nothing for sure.

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SOFISTISOFTWARE 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:45:45
#977 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 458
From: Latina, Italy

@kas1e

ohhh nice news !! I hope Fab is finding the source code for Curl, however thanks a lot for the big work

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:48:01
#978 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@SOFISTISOFTWARE

We can try to add async stuff to curl (because anyway we need rewrite file.c for make URI works fine), so if Fab will help us, and he still not drive into the madness because of those 4 months of annoing, then i think we can do that as well :)

Btw, with network-thread, dns-blocking will be not so problematic. I mean you for example go to some site, then dns-resolver suck and block the stuff, so, with enabled network-thread you just open new tab, and continue your work.

But for sure better to add async to curl as well.

Last edited by kas1e on 19-Apr-2011 at 04:54 PM.

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SOFISTISOFTWARE 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 17:21:21
#979 ]
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Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 458
From: Latina, Italy

@kas1e

yes, sure is it better to add async to curl and i think Fab will help you !

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sundown 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 20:17:05
#980 ]
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Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@kas1e

mui-owb looks fantastic! Can't wait to get my hands on it when it's ready.

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