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      /  X1000 and OS 4.2
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PosterThread
Tuxedo 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 22-Jul-2011 23:21:28
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2326
From: Perugia, ITALY

@tonyw

Quote:
A change to 64-bit will affect everything in the OS. All structures will become incompatible, every API will have to change, the OS will have to be re-written. In order to allow legacy code to run, a 32-bit wrapper will have to be written. The whole source code tree will probably have to be branched.


exactly!
I think that we need really much things before 64 bit OS...
The only interesting thing (imho) was the over 4GB addressing space but also that seems to be easly fixable referring to that article:

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/indications/indications.html

So...
Give us X1000 but with 32bit AmigOS and maybe SMP! :D

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 22-Jul-2011 23:41:38
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@Tuxedo

Quote:

Tuxedo wrote:
@tonyw

Quote:
A change to 64-bit will affect everything in the OS. All structures will become incompatible, every API will have to change, the OS will have to be re-written. In order to allow legacy code to run, a 32-bit wrapper will have to be written. The whole source code tree will probably have to be branched.


exactly!
I think that we need really much things before 64 bit OS...
The only interesting thing (imho) was the over 4GB addressing space but also that seems to be easly fixable referring to that article:

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/64bitPorting/indications/indications.html

So...
Give us X1000 but with 32bit AmigOS and maybe SMP! :D


Myth #3

Myth: All of the system calls and corresponding C library functions have to change (or new ones have to be added) for 64-bit compatibility.

Fact: Most of the system call arguments changed to 64-bit many years ago. Some operating systems have separate 64-bit versions of these functions, such as llseek64. In Mac OS X, these variants are unnecessary because those functions are already 64-bit capable.

The notable exceptions are those functions related to memory management, such as mmap, malloc, and so on. Those functions have changed in terms of the size of data passed (because the size of size_t changed), but this change should be largely transparent to you as a programmer.

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tonyw 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 23-Jul-2011 9:12:19
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3229
From: Sydney (of course)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Surely you are not trying to say that Apple's FAQ answer applies to AmigaOS?

Apple may have "converted everything to 64-bit years ago". AmigaOS definitely has not.

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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thinkchip 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 31-Jul-2011 15:15:15
#84 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1177
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

The system programmers have cautioned app programmers for years not to access structures, memory, etc., directly and use the approved system calls. Programs that run into trouble are those that don't follow the rules.

Just wondering if all memory pointers are 64-bit?

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amitv 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 31-Jul-2011 19:08:54
#85 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 346
From: Unknown

http://imageshack.us/f/838/foto1uwd.jpg

http://imageshack.us/f/64/foto2uqb.jpg

Last edited by amitv on 31-Jul-2011 at 07:11 PM.
Last edited by amitv on 31-Jul-2011 at 07:09 PM.

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ddni 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 31-Jul-2011 19:28:13
#86 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@amitv

Nice pics.
Where when and what are we seeing?

I can guess at debian linux, running a DVD.

BUT why pick such an obscure movie as "Dracula (The Dirty Old Man)" Is this a reference to any peeps in the Amiga world? LOL

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Seiya 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 31-Jul-2011 19:34:22
#87 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1424
From: Italia

@amitv

but why on Imageshack?
could you link orginal sites of these images or it is an other X mystery

Last edited by Seiya on 31-Jul-2011 at 07:36 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 31-Jul-2011 20:56:32
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@tonyw

I'm just saying that I don't think every think has to be 64bit in to make use of 64bit address space.

What every one is going to expect is operating system that can run 32bit and 64bit programs, not make a incompatible OS where every thing is different.

32bit addresses can be converted to 64bit, but 64bit can not be truncated to 32bit for this you can use the MMU to remap physical memory.

I'm thinking about MSDOS, it did have some problems too.

Quote:
the dependence on IBM-compatible hardware caused major problems for the computer industry when the original design had to be changed. For example, the original design could support no more than 640 kilobytes of memory (the 640 kB barrier), because IBM's hardware design reserved the address space above this limit for peripheral devices and ROM. Manufacturers had to develop complicated schemes (EMS and XMS, and other minor proprietary ones) to access additional memory.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS

Also I think its possible to migrate to 64bit slowly (One library at the time, if needed).

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2011 at 09:21 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 31-Jul-2011 at 08:59 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 31-Jul-2011 at 08:56 PM.

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Deniil715 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 1-Aug-2011 13:09:23
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4217
From: Sweden

@thinkchip

If the X1000 will be shipped with OS4.2 then I don't think there will be an update 3. Update 3 has not been confirmed AFAIK, only that there will be "an update" being 4.1.3 or 4.2 we don't know.

I have also always believed that the next update (being 4.1.3 or 4.2) will be what the X1000 will ship with.

About 64-bit: That's much more difficult than SMP because so many APIs and structs will have to be completely recreated since all pointers will need to be 64-bit. Perhaps, if this is really what they are working on, is to still have all apps 32-bit but let the OS itself, internally, allow for more than 4GB of memory to be used in total (adding all apps together) but relocating them into virtual 32-bit chunks into 64-bit space.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 1-Aug-2011 13:28:38
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@Deniil715

Quote:

Update 3 Status Report

AmigaOS 4.1 Update 3 is currently in the works and will be released as a free update for all of Hyperion's registered customers


I think Hyperion will stick to doing what they say are going to do.

http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=479#comments

There is talke about a update 4, but I don't think they do that, it takes time to prepare etch update.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2011 at 01:56 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2011 at 01:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2011 at 01:31 PM.

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Arko 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 1-Aug-2011 22:41:07
#91 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

Quote:

Deniil715 wrote:
@thinkchip

If the X1000 will be shipped with OS4.2 ...


The FAQ said:
"In the initial A1-X1000 release, AmigaOS 4.1 will not make use of the second CPU core "
Source: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30985&forum=42#550233

The string "4.2" was not found in the FAQ.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Deniil715 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 2-Aug-2011 12:50:56
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4217
From: Sweden

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Fact: Most of the system call arguments changed to 64-bit many years ago. Some operating systems have separate 64-bit versions of these functions, such as llseek64. In Mac OS X, these variants are unnecessary because those functions are already 64-bit capable.


This obviously doesn't apply to AmigaOS. Take something as simple and common as taglists. They take both ints and pointers. And they are 32-bit. You cannot put a 64-bit pointer into a taglist, like for example a simple char* for window title.

Quote:

Also I think its possible to migrate to 64bit slowly (One library at the time, if needed).


Like how DOS now has 64-bit functions? Sure, but doing it this way, all apps would still be 32-bit and it would be tedious making explicit use of all these new function names. Making 64-bit code run will require every pointer and pointer API the app will ever access to be 64-bit compatible. This includes pretty much everything. And of course you would really not like to have to manually rename every single OS function call and struct used in the code, but you would like to simply recompile with a 64-bit flag.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 2-Aug-2011 13:11:52
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@Deniil715

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32s

I'm just thinking about some thing like Win32s, no point in loosing 32bit support because, you have a SQL database and few other applications like video editing software inn need of 64bit.

4Gbyte for TAG list, List or Node is more then you need.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Aug-2011 at 01:25 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Aug-2011 at 01:14 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Aug-2011 at 01:13 PM.

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persia 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 2-Aug-2011 14:46:55
#94 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Ah, what a difference a few computer generations make. The AmigaOS was the first personal computer 16 bit OS, now it aims to be the last on to make the leap to 64 bits.....

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Hans 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 3-Aug-2011 21:25:28
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

Ah, what a difference a few computer generations make. The AmigaOS was the first personal computer 16 bit OS, now it aims to be the last on to make the leap to 64 bits.....


Correction, AmigaOS was a 32-bit OS from the get-go. The 68000 may have had a 16-bit external data bus,** but it was always 32-bits internally.

Hans

** NOTE: The 68000's address bus was 24-bit

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realize 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 3-Aug-2011 23:01:54
#96 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@andres

Quote:
Gallium3D - maybe SMP - maybe Timberwolf and perhaps Open Office



Well i hate to criticize a guy with one of my fav avatars on this site but are you #*@) mad? You been drinking? You wont see any of those any time soon. Thats just logic. They dont have the developer resources. This X1000 project is killing em. I'm sure all efforts are for device drivers and bugfixes for X1000 and os4 atm..

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sundown 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 3-Aug-2011 23:25:29
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@realize

Quote:
I'm sure all efforts are for device drivers and bugfixes for X1000 and os4 atm..

nice try...

For those who believe, keep the faith. I suppose I'll get flamed for not giving a reason, but I just don't care.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 3-Aug-2011 23:38:22
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@persia

AmigaOS can't run 16bit, A0-A7 are 32bit address registers, externally (the pins on the out side) 68000 was 24bit. If there was a way I can just delete your misinformed comment :-/



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68000

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2011 at 11:56 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2011 at 11:42 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2011 at 11:39 PM.

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sundown 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 4-Aug-2011 5:22:55
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

Just released on the a-eon mailing list..

A-EON Technology is pleased to announce that the Nemo revision 2.1 "gold" motherboard has passed inspection and full production of boards destined for the AmigaOne X1000 betatest team is now underway. AmigaKit, the official distributor of the A1-X1000, will take delivery of the first batch of boards from Varisys next week and will begin shipments to team members shortly after.

Link: Video of Nemo revision 2.1 motherboard in production - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceePT8mOguM

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klx300r 
Re: X1000 and OS 4.2
Posted on 4-Aug-2011 5:30:43
#100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3754
From: Toronto, Canada

@sundown

super cool! that videos got me mesmerized

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
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X1000 I BELIEVE

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