I use OS4 everyday for a long time. THATS why I;m frustrated with it. (not OS4 perse, but the whole user experience with all apps I use)

I'm glad some of you recongnise some of my issues.

Seriously, I'm scared of showing OS4 to anyone, because: 'that might not work', 'that might crash', 'no flash ?', 'outdated word processor', 'java ?', 'jees.. do you have to do all that cli stuff ?'... I can go on...

I find OS4 less and less fun to use... I'm loosing interest in it. I even blew my X1000 money on a new car.

...........

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@Metalheart

Quote:

Metalheart wrote: I cant get Jack to work properly, OWBMUI crashes and cant get Simplemail to use it , Clipdown ceases to work every time youtube gets changed/updated, DVplayer doesnt work well, crashes when opening a DVD. And on top of that every other program askes for another million libs or whatever I do not have and so I go hunting for them again...... And I have to bother you all again with my troubles.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people seem to have so much trouble, and I seem to have so little. I haven't tested it extensively, but MUIOWB worked fine for me, as does Simplemail (when I tried it), and DvPlayer. I have also had none of the problems that some people have had with AmigaOS 4.1 update 3. In fact, my A1-XE is still working reliably despite its reputation as being flaky.

I do find the problem of programs asking for libs that weren't installed annoying though. I recommend that all developers get others (non-developers) to test their apps before releasing, and even to have a clean install partition to test their installers on. It's not hard to make sure that all of the required libs are included.

Hans

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@K-L

Quote:

Seriously not. I was just saying that if you want to get used to AmigaOS 4.1, you have to use it.

Like with everything.

Quote:

This is why I advise Metalheart to get in touch with someone using on a regular basis AmigaOS 4.1 and being able to help him to configure his system since it is obviously ver badly configured.

Or just missing one .so somewhere. It could also be that nothing is easy with AmigaOS these days, or maybe it never was. Download this, get that, install something else, write these things to env... I could go on. Sure AmigaOS always needed some extra care, but there has to be a limit somewhere...

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@Metalheart

X1000 will not solve any problems which we have with the OS and the software itself. HW will be faster, but problems with crashes, reboots, and no flash/java/wordprocessor will be present the same as it now.

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@Metalheart

Quote:

I even blew my X1000 money on a new car.

Wow! Cars are expensive these days

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@kas1e

Yeah, well I was just pointing out that a was saving for a X1000 but since I needed a new car and getting more frustrated with AOS and wondering what extra joy or benefits it would bring to me, I decided to go for the car and take the gamble that when I again ahve save enough there are still some X1000's around or even other newer systems...

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@zerohero

Quote:

Or just missing one .so somewhere. It could also be that nothing is easy with AmigaOS these days, or maybe it never was. Download this, get that, install something else, write these things to env... I could go on. Sure AmigaOS always needed some extra care, but there has to be a limit somewhere...

Exactly.....

I used to like tinkering with all this, but its getting absurd, and I dont realy find it fun anymore....

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@Hans

Quote:

It's not hard to make sure that all of the required libs are included.

imo that's an oversimplification of a solution.
Most users are relying on a LOT of 68k software. A lot of that software requires downloading updated libs, etc. regardless.

I realize that your post indirectly referred to OS4 native apps, but that's not where the greatest number of issues occurs. Reading old threads about the old "must have" 68k programs bares that out.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 02-Sep-2011 at 09:05 PM.

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@zerohero

Quote:

Wow! Cars are expensive these days

Go figure....

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@zerohero

Quote:

zerohero wrote: Though people have always made their own decisions on how to install and customise AmigaOS, and AmigaOS 4.x just doesn't play as nice as older versions did, in that regard. IMO, I might add.

I disagree with you on this one. I haven't seen any evidence of things getting worse. Besides, blaming the OS for problems caused by lax third-parties just isn't fair.

The question for me is, how can we improve the situation? Clearly too many third-party developers aren't taking the time to write proper installers, or even to do dependency checking. Is there a way to encourage doing things properly? Would installer tutorials help? Is there a way to make it easier for developers? A dependency checker perhaps (although checking Snoopy's log would be a good starting point)?

Hans

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@Metalheart

Just to add: the same problems users can have and with morphos, and with of course aros (as it more buggy). Even with any linux (does not matter ppc or not ppc), if you do not want to "bother", and want to be just casual user, you will always have feeling pretty closed to aos/mos/aros : no normal flash, no modern games, many programms buggy, etc. AOS (and aos like oses) never be easy and fun to use while someone will not spend million dollars in it (and even then, there is no real hope).

Today that all are joy. Mostly for programmers and advanced users, but not for casual ones for sure.

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Without wishing to open a can of worms, wouldn't a lot of these issues be fixed if the Amiga platforms used package managers?

I'm not talking about package managers like you find on Linux, but rather something more simple. AmiUpdate has the right level of complexity for this task IMO:
http://codebench.co.uk/AU_LiveSite/index.php?page=features

What can be done to increase use of AmiUpdate for package management?

@Hans

Quote:

Besides, blaming the OS for problems caused by lax third-parties just isn't fair.

I'm not really blaming the OS, but it sure looks on the forums like AmigaOS 4.x doesn't play as nice with peoples choices. Personally I have had very little problems with AmigaOS 4.x, but I never bothered much with customising it either. Never did that.

Quote:

Clearly too many third-party developers aren't taking the time to write proper installers, or even to do dependency checking.

Agreed.

Quote:

Is there a way to encourage doing things properly? Would installer tutorials help?

Installer tutorials would be very helpful, I think.

Quote:

A dependency checker perhaps (although checking Snoopy's log would be a good starting point)?

Snoopy (and SnoopDOS before that) seem to be forgotten these days. Not many bugreports with Snoopy logs attached. Plenty of horribly long Grim Reaper logs though.

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@Hans

AMiUpdate seems to be on the right track. Now If indeed developers would pay a bit more atention...

I reme,ber getting som emissing library or whatever from a site that my Amiga borwser could not even display, and when I finaly found it, it turned out to be a GZIP/TAR file.... Jeesssss....

And I realy dont blame OS4. That works fine. Ofcourse there are some things that need improving, but other apps make it crash and behave oddly IMO.

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@HenryCase

Honestly, when it comes to 68k material you would almost have to correct archives and re-archive a lot of material. In some case that would mean correcting install scripts of course.
When there is no longer an author to contact, I don't see any other way, but I'd be curious to hear other ideas.

#6

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@HenryCase

Quote:

HenryCase wrote: Without wishing to open a can of worms, wouldn't a lot of these issues be fixed if the Amiga platforms used package managers? I'm not talking about package managers like you find on Linux, but rather something more simple. AmiUpdate has the right level of complexity for this task IMO: http://codebench.co.uk/AU_LiveSite/index.php?page=features What can be done to increase use of AmiUpdate for package management?

Using package managers won't help. Why? Because the developer still has to tell the package manager what the dependencies are, which is where so many developers "drop the ball."

Hans

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@kas1e

i agree that aros is probably more buggy, but its open, free and therefore it qualifies as a labour of love. lol. its just nice to see it taking shape every other day testing it on my a4000s. sure it is not yet quite usable on "classics" but the pace is fast atm and you can see the progress day by day, not just hope for another bugfix or update every few months, not even knowing exactly where it is headning and not knowing at what stage the development actually is. and also aros doesnt impose expensive choices on its users. you can run it on cheap pc, on your amiga, on a sam if you wish, soon on a variety of further hardware, maybe even on x1k, some developers seem interested. thats why i went over in a nutshell.

I feel with you :)

Anyway for the DVPlayer i tried the demo and it crashed also on some videofiles. I reported to the author with logs and stuff so i hope hell fix it. Just wait another 3 years and get the update... :) Joke aside i gave him as much info as i could.

I didnt had any problems when installing update3 like folks (muimaster.library in libs:)
USB2 is much faster and this is what i waited forever for but better now then never.
OWB-MUI works great. Eager for next owb update with threading resolved etc.

Only problems i had was freezing of the whole system randomly. I think its something with the HW. Probably my usb2 card or something inside the tower. I removed all stuff from the usb2 ports and use the usb1.1 ports from the amigaone side. So now last 3 reboots i didnt had any problems at all. Will try to connect the mouse to usb2, then keyboard etc... just for testing. Could be some bad cable inside the tower too. I had this problem for ages ago...

I wish you happy miggyn. I know how it is when something dont work as it should. You just go maaaad :)

@Metalheart

Quote:

Metalheart wrote: I use OS4 everyday for a long time. THATS why I;m frustrated with it. (not OS4 perse, but the whole user experience with all apps I use)

You are in the right website and the proper forum, as a OS4 user, to
blow off as much steam as necessary about the product you actually own.

Perhaps the steam will rise hi enough to get some changes made, perhaps
it is already known and under way.

The ranting is fine. The points are valid. (I still have not "warmed" to
MUI, but that is a personal thing.)

I believe it will get straightened out, Amiupdate and things like that.
Perhaps also OS4Depot could be adjusted so when you select a program it
warns you of any additional software it needs, or something.

Steam on Amigian,,,steam on.

@Kicko

Quote:

Will try to connect the mouse to usb2

Good idea. And don't use usb for anything else while you test that for a while...

#6

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