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PosterThread
Toaks 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 20:02:57
#381 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8040
From: amigaguru.com

@Chain-Q

Quote:

Chain-Q wrote:
@1Mouse
Quote:
If you are hoping to watch HTML5 video within your browser then 667Mhz just doesn't cut it, so IMO 800Mhz+ would be needed.

Strange, last time I checked, I was able to watch YouTube quite nicely on my PowerMac G4/450Mhz with an ATi Rage (using about 45-50% of the CPU). It wasn't OS4 and Timberwolf tho'...


morphos must have got very good lately as my powerbook G4 (2004 or so.. i think its 1.6ghz and its running leopard) certainly doesnt play youtube properly in safari , there's skipping and sound issues at times.

ohwell, i found it at the dump for free so i will wait for morphos to be released for it (if ever) but one thing is for sure, macos is way overhyped and its crippled and boring..

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number6 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 20:06:37
#382 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10698
From: In the village

@Toaks

The comparisons are "apples and oranges".
Under OS4.x and utube you can choose a resolution to play back the clip.
Comparing a 320x240 to a 640x360 choice is just silly.

#6

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recedent 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 20:53:49
#383 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2010
Posts: 221
From: Tarnów

@Toaks:

Quote:
my powerbook G4 (2004 or so.. i think its 1.6ghz and its running leopard) (...) i will wait for morphos to be released for it (if ever)


The good news is - if it's really 1.67 GHz then it's already supported since MorphOS 3.0.

@number6 :

You can do the same on MorphOS too, so what's the point? Let Toaks share a link to this "improperly played by OSX/Safari" YouTube clips and we'll do some testing.

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number6 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 20:59:48
#384 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10698
From: In the village

@recedent

Quote:
You can do the same on MorphOS too, so what's the point?


Same as yours. Test with identical files.

#6

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Tomas 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 21:06:46
#385 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@Toaks
Probably because flash player on MacOS is completely unusable. Even the linux version uses less resources and runs much smoother.
And you can now also watch youtube in html5, which i bet would work fine on such a system.

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broadblues 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 21:07:37
#386 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4396
From: Portsmouth England

@number6

Quote:

Same as yours. Test with identical files.


You need both identical files and more importantly identical expectations.

An Amigoid user might very pleased to acheive as much as X fps where the Max User might be disappointed to achieve as little as Xfps



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Kronos 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 21:12:01
#387 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2177
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Well the ut-link eder posted on the last page plays at 90% CPU here with a 1.8GHz G4 (OWB-"fullscreen"-mode while spoofing as iPad) so it would be borderline for any PowerBook and probraly stutter for anything below 1.5GHz (RAM-speed might also be a point).

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recedent 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 21:14:28
#388 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2010
Posts: 221
From: Tarnów

@broadblues

If I get a smooth video playback with less than 100% CPU usage then it must be "maximum FPS there is", right?

@Kronos:

I got about 55% with the same video in 854x480 on a lowly Mac Mini 1.5 GHz (running "full screen" in OWB with YouTube scripts enabled). I can upload a video if needed.

Last edited by recedent on 04-Aug-2012 at 09:42 PM.

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Zylesea 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 22:18:20
#389 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2148
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

Really depends on the codec and embedding. If spoofed as ipad or other htnl5 device the video requires about 90% load windowed (on my G4 1500). If spoofing is set to some non HTML5 browser and OWB's scripts do the actual job it's down to about 30% fullscreen.
It's very hard to benchmark internet applications. But while I use to love academic benchmarks I came to the conclusion that for everyday usage these have rather little meaning and it only matter what actually is there when you sit in front of the computer. And yes, the combination of MorphOS + OWB + scripts does some miracles. Maybe under OS X similar things could be possible, but eventually they aren't. Hence MorphOS rules in this regard and became my favorite youtube system.

If OS4 + OWB should be able to do similar things youtube should be even usable on a 400MHz e300 core. At least I was able to watch youtube clips on my Efika (wasn't too much fun though due to limited RAM). Nonetheless I doubt OS4 for the Limebook will ever reach a matured development level.

Last edited by Zylesea on 04-Aug-2012 at 10:19 PM.
Last edited by Zylesea on 04-Aug-2012 at 10:18 PM.

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OldAmigan 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 22:43:55
#390 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 587
From: Dumfries, Scotland

@Zylesea

Surely that's one of the problems likely to be stopping its introduction.

If it has a video chip capable of outputting HD at whatever size and letting the CPU do it's own job (very Amiga-like, really), then if you haven't got the driver to enable it, it still won't work. (At least, that's what I'm hoping at the moment).

The OS team is pitifully small. If they also have to write the video driver for a new chip on top of the updates for the OS on several different systems they are really stretched.

I'm looking forward to this netbook as much as anyone else. At the moment I have a Dell netbook with the awful GMA500 graphics chipset. It's very capable of outputting HD but there are a lot of Linux distro's that have no way of using it - down to drivers.

Give the guys a chance. We all know they are very capable and skilled coders and they'll get there at some stage.

And yes - I'd like it to be soon, too!

Last edited by OldAmigan on 04-Aug-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Last edited by OldAmigan on 04-Aug-2012 at 10:45 PM.

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========================================
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Dell Mini 10 Netbook running IcAros and AmigaForever+Amikit+AmigaSys
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Toaks 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 22:46:37
#391 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8040
From: amigaguru.com

@recedent

Chain-Q said 450mhz G4 didnt he?

anyway my powerbook ain't supported (yet).

and i doubt a powerbook G4 from 2004 is that much slower than a 450mhz G4 from mid 90's or something.

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olegil 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 23:00:24
#392 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@Zylesea

The 5121e has a core that can help off-loading at least the audio parts from the main CPU, unfortunately the graphics core leaves a LOT to be desired. Had they chosen the SGX instead of the MBX Lite it would have been totally cool.

In fact, I think that's my only gripe with that chip. Enough GPU power to off-load mpeg 2/4 and h.264 would have completely rocked.

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recedent 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 23:11:02
#393 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2010
Posts: 221
From: Tarnów

@Toaks

Yes, Chain-Q did say 450 MHz G4, but he didn't specify what YT video and what resolution he was talking about.

As for your PowerBook - if it isn't supported then it surely isn't a 1.67 GHz PowerBook. It might be a 1.5 GHz PowerBook (only A1106 supported so far). And if your PB has nVidia GeForce gfx card onboard then I wouldn't keep my fingers crossed.

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Zylesea 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 4-Aug-2012 23:13:25
#394 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2148
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@olegil

The AXE engine may help. And for the gfx thing I completely agree (even worse with the 8610!). If Fresscale had done this right, the 5121 would be a perfect chip for a Raspberry Pi clone (cheap and powerful enough).
Anyway, you as a 512x guy, how do you consider the impact of the non cache coherence of the 512x chip family? I am really undecided on taht issue. On the one hand I think AmigaOS itself has some API functions to take care of that (which probably comes at a cost). On the other hand I was pretty surprised to learn, that for MorphOS cache coherence is _mandatory_ (IIRC Piru sad this).

Last edited by Zylesea on 04-Aug-2012 at 11:15 PM.

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Daedalus 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 5-Aug-2012 0:17:52
#395 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1675
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@Tomas

Quote:

Tomas wrote:
And you can now also watch youtube in html5, which i bet would work fine on such a system.


Nope. HTML5 struggles on my 1.33GHz G4 and my 1.8GHz G5. It's usable on the G5 provided you don't have anything else running, or try to open a new tab or anything. It's better than Flash for sure, but not so good that I would call it suitable for everyday use.

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thinkchip 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 5-Aug-2012 1:42:25
#396 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1113
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@OldAmigan

Won't they need to add software shutdown / sleep to OS 4 to prolong the battery life?

_________________
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Daedalus 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 5-Aug-2012 1:54:09
#397 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1675
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@thinkchip

There are heaps of things that would be needed, power management is just one, and that's a whole new API. There are also wireless drivers to be written, and maybe some other funky stuff like autodetecting audio input/outputs, lid closed sensors, LCD backlight control etc.

Last edited by Daedalus on 05-Aug-2012 at 01:54 AM.

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Fab 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 5-Aug-2012 2:12:30
#398 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@Toaks

Quote:

morphos must have got very good lately as my powerbook G4 (2004 or so.. i think its 1.6ghz and its running leopard) certainly doesnt play youtube properly in safari , there's skipping and sound issues at times.


Regarding HTML5 video, Odyssey on MorphOS is way faster than Safari or Firefox on OSX. For 360p content (be it webm or mp4), a PowerBook G4 using Odyssey will need something like 20-30% CPU in fullscreen mode. And 720p youtube content is watchable on such machines with loopfilter disabled.

But it's not magic. The reason is quite simple: i wrote a special display mode when fullscreen/fullwindow mode is used : it's basically the same as MPlayer video output, using overlay. It's much faster because it totally bypasses webkit rendering and cairo routines.

On the other hand, when fullscreen mode is not used, it will need much more cpu, but 360p content still plays fine on a powerbook/macmini, without skipping or sound issues.

Last edited by Fab on 05-Aug-2012 at 02:19 AM.

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vox 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 5-Aug-2012 7:40:13
#399 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Communicate what? That the OS4 project is pretty much dead, because they don't have enough manpower left? I'm all for transparency, but I can understand why they don't communicate tha


If something is dead, its not being developed e.g. AmigaOS 3.x is dead.

They surely could be short on manpower to do all the needed jobs parallely (Timberwolf, OS 4.2, SAM 460 and X1000 support and nettop) but it doesnt mean it will not be done.

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KimmoK 
Re: OS4 Netbook in 2012?
Posted on 5-Aug-2012 10:19:42
#400 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5111
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Fab

"Odyssey on MorphOS is way faster than Safari or Firefox on OSX."
Killer application for netbook caliber HW then.

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