@vox, @wawa
The thing is about higher volumes = reduced prices is that the relationship is not linear, i.e. you have to reach a set threshold of units before the price is notably reduced. We don't know the logistics of X1000 production to know what these thresholds are.

Put another way, let's say we want to half the selling price of the X1000, how many units would that require selling? 1000+? 10000+? 100000+? The point is, we don't know, so we don't know if reducing the price of the X1000 is feasible even if all active Amigans bought one.

The price is what it is, we may be lucky to get a reduced price in time, but don't bank on it, evaluate the offer as it stands now.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

its about securing a future for continued hardware development for the Amiga platform something a lot more important.

I dont see any advantages what proprietary hardware could bring to us. I mean -- take AROS as an example. Would it provide more value to AROS if they designed their own x86 hardware?

Quote:

We should not fight over hardware we should join forces and bring the price down on new hardware.

Or just pick some ready to use design, like AmigaOne Netbook.

Eyetech didnt contribute single cent to Acube's SAM development. Neither did Acube contribute single cent to AmigaOne Netbook or AmigaOne X1000. Neither did Pegasos sales have any impact on MacPPC prices.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@g_kraszewski

Quote:

g_kraszewski wrote: @vox Sadly MOS no longer has hardware backup company. Because it does not need it. Millions of Apple units are better support than A-Eon and ACube are able to provide ever. Repeating that "OS4 if in far better position" does not change that. Look at Linux – it does not have hardware backup company too...

Volume of units is not the only issue though is it, there's also the issue of performance. Mac PPC hardware offers good enough performance right now, but what about the future?

Using an arbitrarily-chosen example, we're unlikely to ever see a PPC Mac that supports USB3, whereas if our PPC hardware options develop, we may see this on other PPC platforms. USB3 isn't truly mainstream right now, but in time it's likely it will be. Supporting new hardware efforts in the Amiga community enhances the chances that we'll see more modern features like USB3 in the future.

Hope this makes sense to you.

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: I dont see any advantages what proprietary hardware could bring to us. I mean -- take AROS as an example. Would it provide more value to AROS if they designed their own x86 hardware?

AROS doesn't need to 'design' its own hardware as it works (to varying degrees, depending on driver support) on modern, mass-produced devices. This is not true for either AmigaOS4 or MorphOS.

There is no 'correct' way to solve the hardware challenges facing AmigaOS4 or MorphOS, if you prefer one method over the other then fine, but if you're blind to the problems your chosen method brings with it then you need to reexamine whether you're making a decision based on rationality.

Last edited by HenryCase on 12-Nov-2011 at 04:57 PM.

@HenryCase

This also applies to devs. I think there is a bigger chance of hitting the lottery jackpot then getting them to
not trying to kill eachoter.

Quote:

@Antique Quote: Antique wrote: I see this all the time, joining forces... Much talk, and no action. To move forward in joint action, you must first start with a position of respect. Seeing as some users do not have this respect, talking is the appropriate 'action' to correct this. Besides, there has been some (limited) collaboration between the different camps already, which I can give examples of if you're truly interested.

_________________
I'm an antique. Don't light my fuse

@Antique
Quote:

Antique wrote: This also applies to devs. I think there is a bigger chance of hitting the lottery jackpot then getting them to not trying to kill eachoter.

It applies to everybody.

I'm not sure which developers in particular you're referring to, but would say there are Amiga developers out there that are open to collaboration. Three that spring to mind are Fab, kas1e and Yannickescu, and I know there are others.

@HenryCase

Maybe in the future there is some company developing affordable PPC hardware. If not, I still wouldnt worry about it. You can always port to new architecture. Or just finish it with the PPC.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Antique

Quote:

Antique wrote: I see this all the time, joining forces... Much talk, and no action.

A point of live and let live would be a good start on that path.

Perhaps the pre-condition to that is, live and let die the past.




I can't believe I just said that.

@itix
Quote:

itix wrote: @HenryCase Maybe in the future there is some company developing affordable PPC hardware. If not, I still wouldnt worry about it. You can always port to new architecture. Or just finish it with the PPC.

Affordable is a subjective term. The real issue is choice. Putting aside the option to move away from PPC (which the majority would prefer, if it could be done within a reasonable timeframe), you have a number of choices when it comes to PPC hardware, and no particular choice that is everyones favourite. With that in mind, why limit that choice?

@itix

Look every time there is new hardware for AmigaOS there are news reported on lots none Amiga news sites, like PC world and OSNews, you do not get that by supporting Mac PowerPC hardware that none cares about or is forgotten.

If you like to get new users you should consider twitter and facebook, people that sign up this sites are happy to get marketing, advertisement and spam crap.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Nov-2011 at 05:37 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga
Stop looking at the issue from the red camp only.

Think about it like this. If there's a news story about the X1000 that drives someone to this site, they may find that, whilst they can't afford an X1000, they can afford a PPC Mac and MorphOS. This increases the NG Amiga community by 1 more user. If the PPC Mac option wasn't there, then we would have lost a potential user.

The rivalry is only damaging if you want it to be, it can be constructive too.

Last edited by HenryCase on 12-Nov-2011 at 05:50 PM.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Look every time there is new hardware for AmigaOS there are news reported on lots none Amiga news sites, like PC world and OSNews, you do not get that by supporting Mac PowerPC hardware that none cares about or is forgotten.

If that is all you want, fine.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@HenryCase

Quote:

The thing is about higher volumes = reduced prices is that the relationship is not linear, i.e. you have to reach a set threshold of units before the price is notably reduced. We don't know the logistics of X1000 production to know what these thresholds are. Put another way, let's say we want to half the selling price of the X1000, how many units would that require selling? 1000+? 10000+? 100000+? The point is, we don't know, so we don't know if reducing the price of the X1000 is feasible even if all active Amigans bought one. The price is what it is, we may be lucky to get a reduced price in time, but don't bank on it, evaluate the offer as it stands now

at the moment os 4 hardware be it sam or x1k seems to be handled in quite the opposite manner. note that on that new amiga chart map only 6 x1k users have registered up till now. also note the constant shortage of sam boards. so the hardware is apparently produced in small batches exactly driving the price high. besides regarding surely extreme development costs vs assembly costs especially on x1k i dont think expectable selling volumes are ever going to make any impact on the end user price.

@wawa

And by this you mean??????
Quote:

note that on that new amiga chart map only 6 x1k users have registered up till now

Even though the price of the sam series have dropped over time. It was more expensive when it first came for sale.
Quote:

also note the constant shortage of sam boards. so the hardware is apparently produced in small batches exactly driving the price high

_________________
I'm an antique. Don't light my fuse

@wawa
Quote:

wawa wrote: i dont think expectable selling volumes are ever going to make any impact on the end user price.

You can believe what you want. My point was that none of us know what level of sales volume is required before the price can drop, which is why you should assume that the price will stay consistent.

@amigadave

Quote:

Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users?

Because the AmigaOS 4.x user community is a lot more active than its MorphOS counterpart.

Polls have always indicated the number of users are about the same though.

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

Quote:

zerohero wrote: @amigadave Quote: Why does there seem to be more OS4 users than MorphOS users? Because the AmigaOS 4.x user community is a lot more active than its MorphOS counterpart. Polls have always indicated the number of users are about the same though.

If that is true, then maybe the OS4 users are just more full of hot air and must express it more often.

(Sorry about the hot air comment, it was just a joke and trying to add some levity to this thread, no offense intended. You must admit that threads here grow much faster and longer than anything on the MorphZone.org forums, so it would appear that the MorphOS users on that site are less likely to express themselves as often.)

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@HenryCase

Quote:

HenryCase wrote: @amigadave Quote: amigadave wrote: From my experience, very few AmigaOS4 users know hardly anything about MorphOS and it's capabilities. With little to no knowledge about something, it is hard to make an informed choice. I agree with you that such knowledge is vital when making an informed choice. However, could the same not be said about few MorphOS users knowing much about what AmigaOS4 can do? Of course, they can say they've seen the screenshots, and read something about it, but without using the system for themselves then the same level of knowledge you attribute to AmigaOS4 users will be found. Increasing our understanding of all the systems on offer will help us build bridges, but let's not make this a one sided argument, all sides would benefit from learning more, and that includes (many) MorphOS users.

I agree with you 100%, but the problem is MorphOS users either have to have a friend close to them that has an OS4 computer, or they have to buy (relatively) expensive hardware plus a full OS4 license to try it out, as there is no currently available low cost OS4 hardware and there is no demo version of OS4 itself, like the model of MorphOS where you can find compatible hardware for next to nothing (some times even free) and the OS can be downloaded and run for 30 minutes at a time at zero cost. Therefore, it is easy for OS4 users to find out about MorphOS, but much more difficult for MorphOS users to find out about OS4.

I don't know why Hyperion has not ported OS4 to the G4 MacMini, or other G4 Mac models, as it would surely increase their user base and sales of OS4. I can't blame the MorphOS Dev. Team for not wanting to port MorphOS to the SAM boards or to the X1000, as it would likely result in very few sales of MorphOS and be a waste of their time and efforts.

Hopefully some time in the future, both teams will find a common hardware platform that they both like and will port their OSes to and we can have more than just the Pegasos2 systems that can run both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS3.x. Until that happens, not much will change as far as collaboration, or cooperation between OS4 and MorphOS third party developers.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

Quote:

I don't know why Hyperion has not ported OS4 to the G4 MacMini, or other G4 Mac models, as it would surely increase their user base and sales of OS4.

MorphOS Team released MorphOS 2.4 with support for Mac Mini two years ago,

October 12, 2009.

MorphOS Team released MorphOS 2.6 with support for really cheap g4 year ago,

On October 10th, 2010.

Since two years hardware for MorphOS costs about 80 Euro.

Since one year you can get hardware for MorphOS for 10 Euro only.

MorphOS team lost chance to produce a dedicated hardware,

but the number of users has not increased.

@HenryCase

Quote:

You can believe what you want. My point was that none of us know what level of sales volume is required before the price can drop, which is why you should assume that the price will stay consistent.

exactly what i want to tell-