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Srtest 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 8-Dec-2016 22:03:22
#141 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 233
From: Israel, Haderah

@kas1e

Maaaan you are harsh.

I talked to this guy about the possibility of adding Hebrew and if there is any way I can assist. He sent me to a site to learn about unicode but I didn't know what to do with it. Translate? create a doc of some kind? he asked me questions about the similarity of the language to his current project of east-asian languages and I explained it is not at all similar and much more similar to English. I even downloaded the perception ime library and tried to learn something from it. Come to think of it that was two years ago... kinda makes the two more weeks approach look good.

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Rose 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 9-Dec-2016 18:44:11
#142 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 616
From: Unknown

@Srtest

Kas1e is actual developer who has delivered....
Belxjander is good at talking, never delivered anything....

See the difference and why he is harsh?

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Srtest 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 13-Dec-2016 5:01:36
#143 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 233
From: Israel, Haderah

@Rose

I know who he is. It might seem like the entire Amiga world is, well... on Amiga world however I've been here for 2.5 years (3 if you include the time contemplating) before I started to write here.

Not only that, my story which you misunderstood actually supports what he said just not the way he said it. You can't be a compass of judgment for other people, especially those who have had their share of disappointments.

The harsh comment is because not so long ago a pretty positive guy tried to raise a bounty for fixing odyssey and was shut down almost immediately and bluntly instead of being encouraged and supported even if he needed to be clearer. That could have come eventually with your help because of the different aspects of fixing software which has its roots in different platforms, endianess and developments. Understanding everything right away might not always be a valid expectation and odyssey and webkit is a very specific development in the Amiga world of being part native, part port, part dependent of outside support. At least the base should be there for such an initiative.

Last edited by Srtest on 13-Dec-2016 at 05:02 AM.
Last edited by Srtest on 13-Dec-2016 at 05:02 AM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 13-Dec-2016 9:05:54
#144 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 181
From: Unknown

@Srtest

Quote:
The harsh comment is because not so long ago a pretty positive guy tried to raise a bounty for fixing odyssey and was shut down almost immediately and bluntly instead of being encouraged and supported even if he needed to be clearer.

Would you mind pointing out the discussion thread you are referring to? I am afraid you may have confused some things...

Last edited by ASiegel on 13-Dec-2016 at 09:06 AM.

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elwood 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 13-Dec-2016 12:30:35
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3418
From: Lyon, France

@Rose

Quote:
Belxjander is good at talking, never delivered anything....


http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=driver/input/perception-ime.lha
http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=driver/misc/japanese.lha

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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
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BSzili 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 13-Dec-2016 13:36:29
#146 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@elwood

Have you tried Perception IME? It does practically nothing, because it's just a bunch of stubs and boilerplate code. Not only that, he took the wrong approach to it (Intuition input handler). People who have actually worked on IMEs have told him that it won't work. You need 2-way communication between the text input gadgets and the IM framework, but of course he knows better.
For the record, I'm not saying that he is a scam artist. I think he honestly believes he can deliver on his promises along with the rest of his grand plans, like the pie in the sky PolymorphVM without any clear use case and the SabreTooth bluetooth stack. On his old Google Code site he even had plans for a new network stack from scratch, just in case he gets bored.

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elwood 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 13-Dec-2016 21:44:36
#147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3418
From: Lyon, France

@BSzili

Ah I see better now. Thanks.

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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
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Srtest 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 3:00:17
#148 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 233
From: Israel, Haderah

@ASiegel

Funny how I am always confused whatever opinion I express and if you come from a certain group your reasoning doesn't even have to come from the world itself not to mention being able to satisfy some valid doubts about it.

I guess I can tell you to do a search that's what was told many time here to people asking those questions.

Shutting down people who try to initiate some stuff like bounties to advance certain aspects of Amigans day-to-day uses is counterproductive from a wider perspective. If you can't find ways to provide doubts to reduce the chances of dissapointments and waste without shutting down anyone who isn't a veteran in these initiatives then you need to try harder.

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kas1e 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 6:45:40
#149 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3362
From: Russia

@Srtest

Quote:

Shutting down people who try to initiate some stuff like bounties to advance certain aspects of Amigans day-to-day uses is counterproductive from a wider perspective.


Yeah, you may be right, just with one small exception : when its clear (not for one person, but for group of sane peoples), that those people with such initiatives do not know what they talk about. Then , its all hot air and fuzz about nothing. As we told from begining Belxhasasdr is example of how any sane person _don't_ do things. Taking aside his way of how he construct posts (which for me, to be honest, looks like some mind's problem). Yeah, we can be softy about all that things and tolerate it , but , that will help no one, as well as some of us just dislike to tolerate crap, and we call crap as crap, if it crap.

Another example was with that bounty about improving Odyssey , done by one who don't know about project a shit, who don't discuss with ppls in charge about it (i mean with Fab), who just doing "bounty" on some crappy site no-one-know-and-use on his own reassons, then expected that some ppls will do work for him, and then, angree that ppls in charge shit it ? As for me, quite expected as there is some basics burns :) Don't you think so ?:)

Not enough just to have "good initiatives". Sadly.

Last edited by kas1e on 14-Dec-2016 at 06:51 AM.

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terminills 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 9:44:33
#150 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1349
From: Unknown

@Srtest

This seems to be your reaction to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brTeI8X-SoQ

:)

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wawa 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 13:01:59
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6173
From: Unknown

@terminills

if only it was easier to figure out, what one needs to agree to. but maybe it isnt even necessary.

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terminills 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 13:15:52
#152 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1349
From: Unknown

@wawa

No need to agree... The main point is why do people get so upset when people don't agree with them.

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wawa 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 16:17:15
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6173
From: Unknown

@terminills

considering that the reason to register here to publish a number of lenthy manifests was already the disappointment with the attitude of audience elsewhere..

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 16:43:03
#154 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11118
From: Norway

@BSzili

Quote:
You need 2-way communication between the text input gadgets and the IM framework, but of course he knows better.


Well, not really, this how it is USB devices -> Input.device -> Exchange -> Window Event Que,
Gadgets are rendered by input.device for Gadtools and Reaction.

The problem is that gadgets don't support what he is trying to do, can't display text as UTF8, because the gadgets can't display that, and send it over as UTF8 won't work, it not matter of giving the gadgets what they need. It does matter of how you edit the UTF-8 string as well, Gadtools / Reaction / MUI don't have that, I guess need to hack it get it.

Or make a new GUI toolkit that is UTF8 friendly, that’s what I did for LiveForiIt-Music, but then again I don't have support for text input, my GUI is only limited to displaying UTF8 not editing UTF8.
Quote:
SabreTooth bluetooth stack. On his old Google Code site he even had plans for a new network stack from scratch, just in case he gets bored.


I might have influenced him on that, :o), I tried to get in contact with a company to get source for Bluetooth stack once. That did not work out, it be really nice to have Bluetooth stack, it's pretty common now days.

I also sort of have network stack of my own, ARP working, IDCMP working,
IPv4 not working, I have CRC working, I have Sequence number looking correct, I think it's something in hand shake that not working. It mostly just prototype, not clean API.
I don't have support for any network cards, only loopback I have been trying to communicate with Basilisk II.

The API has nothing to do with Sana II, It's a lot different.
I know It's mostly correct because I have formatted dumps, in TCP Dump format, and load the TCP dumps into WireShark on PC, clearly it was not designed to help develop network stacks, because it does detect the problem. I know It's not working as cannot communicate properly with Basilisk II.

Anyway a network stack is lot more than simple package management, is also berkeley socket API, that part is also sort of missing. Anyway Berkeley socket API just front end for all mess under it. but is also a lot work to implement.

Anyway I was hoping by understanding IPv4, can sort understand IPv6, the IPv6 header is simpler then IPv4, but there is something called IPSec that is supposed integrated into it, that what a Cisco Network expert told me at work at least, but then there is difference between expert and real expert.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2016 at 04:48 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2016 at 04:45 PM.

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BSzili 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 16:53:02
#155 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I assume you have written a lot of IMEs for Asian languages.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 16:56:03
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11118
From: Norway

@kas1e

Quote:
we can be softy about all that things and tolerate it , but , that will help no one


Well depends, shooting down people is trying is also bad approach, if you're not trying you're not learning. You never succeed unless you try.

Quote:
as well as some of us just dislike to tolerate crap, and we call crap as crap, if it crap.


It's hard not agree with that, the problem is that people believe in this crap and donate money at projects that is nothing but hot air. That is my only problem with it really.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 17:05:32
#157 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11118
From: Norway

@BSzili

It's issue is bigger than just having UTF8 support, problem in display utf8 is also font problem, you need fonts that have the symbols you wont to display this, Japanese or Chinese fonts are not provided with AmigaOS.

I don't know how Japanese or Chinese keyboards work precisely, but it seems to be good idea to have some kind visual representation as believe there sort basic symbol that sort of modify by extra keystrokes.

Form my point of view it seams more reasonable to do it in the GUI string class, then in the input handler.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-May-2017 at 05:00 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-May-2017 at 04:35 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2016 at 05:30 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2016 at 05:11 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2016 at 05:10 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Dec-2016 at 05:10 PM.

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Srtest 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 14-Dec-2016 23:11:07
#158 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 233
From: Israel, Haderah

@kas1e

I followed closely said debate as I was one of the contributers. Yeah, that guy didn't have everything figured out but guess what - so were you. Seeing as the oddysey I write this message on is so different from the updated version because it uses a different udpated engine that dropped compatibilty not just with our platform, it raises some legitimate questions about where do direct such a bounty. Your answers to the one who initiated the bounty didn't solve this issue and didn't make the situation any clearer. Maybe that is because that entire situation of having a browser that has one leg on 4.1, one on webkit, one arm on javascript and an additional arm on little endian, not to mention jit, makes the end goal somewhat unclear. So what would have happened if that was a rolling bounty like they do rolled-up system updates? when you gather the resources because of a serious setback and only then figure out exactly every detail even it means you have the change the recipient of the bounty.

In research you have a basic split field: exploratory, cunstructive, cause and effect. You can invest some funds in an exploratory research which only goal is to tell you what is your main focus. That research can later tell you what to test that is more relevent to your situation yet is often disregarded becuase of multiple studies done on the same issues. In our situation when you have limited funds and resources, gathering resources while identifying where you need to invest them is a preliminary step. On that issue of oddysey I for one didn't see how everything was laid out, or at least the explanations I read about why this guy didn't have a clue didn't show the right path in a clear and understandable way. Exactly like porting Firefox today would also mean coping with a new engine and WebGL and more and more thechnologies used so nothing can get started at all. Using other terms, you yourself weren't sure if even there was one developer who should get those funds. Maybe because there isn't just one seeing as one works on js for other PowerBE platforms and one on bringing webkit to us, while a third one ported the browser we currently use. You can start something and go from there and eventually figure it out.

I'm an example of someone who invested in that bounty and didn't get crushed or anything as I understood the difficulties and it made me raise those questions without resorting to trolling (curious how that can go) and not just about the bounty itself but also towards the entire situation and the answer I read didn't made things clearer so I'm persuing this further. How do you put it? "basic burns"? well that applies to anyone who invest in anything without finding out what they were doing. I wanted to encourage the initiative and didn't see what you see, however bleak and lacking in details about what should have happened. I also prefer debating this issue and maybe make the earth tremble a little bit for some insecure folks than puting my head between my legs and pretend it doesn't exist as it sounds a lot like not putting money where your mouth is.

Last edited by Srtest on 15-Dec-2016 at 12:03 AM.

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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 8-May-2017 10:39:14
#159 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@Belxjander

Quote:

Belxjander wrote on 1-May-2012:
****FINAL*PAYMENT**** has been made...

I will be recording system construction and setup... along with development setup,
Hopefully this will help explain some of the peculiarties with the sam board series and provide some means of basic problem resolution when setting up AmigaOS4.x based systems.

Additionally I won't need further Volunteers for build testing, however anyone may volunteer to try out any of the tools and libraries I write up if feedback can be reported...

Please report what feedback you can good or bad if you choose to test what I begin releasing after I have tested it as functional at least for my own setup.



Hi, it's been 5 years

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kas1e 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 8-May-2017 15:18:54
#160 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3362
From: Russia

@resle
Quote:

Hi, it's been 5 years


Now if only have time to just reread all thread and make a table of ppls who dond't listen to us, then we can give them win-prize :)

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