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/  Forum Index
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      /  They are hitting hard, here
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paolone 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 13:58:29
#101 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1126
From: Unknown

@Phantom

Quote:
When this comes to Amiga-land, things change of course as you can easily imagine, as its base of interest is entirely to Amiga users. Thus, the AmigaOne X1000 computer today is the fastest next-gen Amiga ever produced (in terms of our land), but that doesn't mean it's the best. For others, yes, I'll agree with you, but not entirely with the above review. When you judge something, I believe that you must also have 'literacy' of using AmigaOS through-out the years, or at least you have use Amigas in your life (and I don't know if this italian guy did that).


For your information, Cesare di Mauro was a coder and created games for the Amiga platform in its golden age. He's been owner of many different Amiga systems and - excluding me - he's maybe the last editor regularily writing about amiga and amiga-like systems on a generalistic IT website in Italy. And the article we're talking about even isn't technically a 'review' but a simple opinion, based however on objective parameters.

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 14:04:30
#102 ]
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Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@paolone

I see. As I said it was just an opinion, but thanks for the extra info Paolo. Opinions are good only if they have evidence.

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paolone 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 15:25:52
#103 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1126
From: Unknown

@Phantom

Phatom,

- Trevor's words about the price of X1000 processors are a fact
- poor benchmarks and absolute performance of the X1000 are a fact
- higher price of the X1000 over the mainstream computers is a fact
- low availability of productive applications for AmigaOS (and MOS and AROS) is a fact
- low price/performance ratio of the X1000 is a fact
- insanely high price of the processor over the whole machine is a fact
- the abandon and scarce availability of the X1000 processor is a fact
- the demise of PASemi is a fact
- the fact that XMOS, Xorro etc are not really attractive for the masses is... well... a fact

And I could go on but I really lack the will. What more 'evidences' would you exactly need, to allow Cesare writing his opinion columns as he wishes?

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 15:42:24
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@paolone

Actually I didn't ask for any evidence.

Last edited by Phantom on 25-Aug-2012 at 04:15 PM.

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Spirantho 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:07:05
#105 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

I could be wrong, but isn't this at least the third article he's written about how much he dislikes the X1000? Writing one article is acceptable (though I don't feel the first one was fair - though my Italian is pretty poor :) ), but writing three just seems more like a witch-hunt to me.

Plus we should consider all the facts, not just some. For instance:

It's a fact that AmigaOS does not fully use the X1000... yet.
It's a fact that the X1000 remains the fastest machine to run AmigaOS.
It's a fact that the X1000 - while being very high for a PC - still runs in at less than some other high end low volume computers like some Macintoshes.
It's a fact that most if not all the X1000 owners seem very happy with their machines and don't regret their purchase.

Personally I consider that last fact to be more important than any other fact that I've seen in this thread.

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itix 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:12:17
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Phantom

Quote:

When you have a generic audience, yes I'll agree with you on this one. But again, it's just only a review and as usual it doesn't represent the entire AmigaOne X1000 audience.
(...)
When this comes to Amiga-land, things change of course as you can easily imagine, as its base of interest is entirely to Amiga users.


I think there is little contradiction here... AmigaOS is marketed as continuation of original Commodore Amiga computer series and it is marketed in a way trying to appeal ex-Amiga users ("remember when the computing was fun" etc). It even comes with the software to run old Amiga software (UAE + Kickstart ROMs with Workbench 3.1 preinstalled) and they are indeed trying to push it to mainstream media (PC magazines, Facebook, YouTube, publicity campaigns, Spotify stuff, Open office porting projects, blogs).

Even fans of OS4 see it should be marketed to the generic audience:
Comeback of Amiga - AmigaOS, a new gaming platform. This "it is ok because we are Amigans" is nothing but an excuse to fund Amiga companies and hope those companies make big bucks one day.

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itix 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:16:44
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Spirantho

Quote:

It's a fact that most if not all the X1000 owners seem very happy with their machines and don't regret their purchase.


Let me ask it this way: why it is important to X1000 owners to tell they are very happy with their purchase? Why should we other Amiga users be interested about it? Why mention it all that user X has bought X1000? Why?

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:18:40
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@itix

I guess that's an estimate how Amigans see things in general. If you want to succeed, then available funds is your first priority. A lot of people don't like the new AmigaOS 4.x, so they decided to stick with the latest 68k AmigaOS 3.9. You cannot change everybody's mind though.

If they want to bring ex-Amigans back, or increase the tiny user-base of Amiga, then find a formula to sell good hardware at affordable prices.

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Spirantho 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:36:33
#109 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@itix

My point is that if you look at it on paper, then yes - an X1000 is a crazy purchase. But if you look at it for what it is - a very niche product (in fact, it's a niche (high-end computer) within a niche (Amigoid OS fans)) then you can't just look at facts like "It's more expensive" or "It's not got much software". You have to look at whether it does what it's aimed to do, which is to offer certain people with deep pockets an AmigaOS experience that no other machine can do - and in this respect it succeeds.

I just get the impression that some people are so busy complaining about it they're not actually interested in finding out whether it's enjoyable or not.

Sure, the X1000 is a bit bonkers from an outsider's point of view; but from an outsider's point of view we're all a bit bonkers to be hanging on to old OSes and old technology. Personally I like being a bit bonkers (hence why I'm writing this on a computer that's nearly 20 years old instead of a modern PC).

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itix 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:37:51
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Phantom

Was there ever a market research to find out what Amigans want? Or is it just who has the loudest voice, is the winner?

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:41:32
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@itix

The loudest voice isn't necessary the winner. I didn't see any market research to find out what Amigans want, that's the truth.

According to many posts here, a lot of people moaning about the X1000's price, and why there is not the possibility to buy just the motherboard only. I don't care so much for the first part, but I do care about the second one.

Either way, I will not stay with my finger-crossed. I have my A4000T ready to entertain me.

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Spectre660 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:45:36
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3891
From: Unknown

@Phantom

I thought that they were not willing to pay the price for an New OS 4.x capable machine.
Its a funny thing. I cant Justify the cost of An X000 but I know that I have spent 3 or 4 times the cost of one for bits and pieces and peripherals for a A1200 system over the years.
I no longer use the A1200 and only turn it on one or twice a year or so and most of the expensive pieces had died.I think that the Powepc Board and ram in 1998 cost about 1/3 of the price of X1000.



Quote:
A lot of people don't like the new AmigaOS 4.x, so they decided to stick with the latest 68k AmigaOS 3.9.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 25-Aug-2012 at 05:01 PM.

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:49:58
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

That's a reason too, no doubt. If you check the recent prices of 15-years-old PPC cards for classic Amigas, you will wonder why as I do.

Another reason is the current software or even hardware for next-gen Amigas compared to 68k Amigas.

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itix 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:52:44
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Spectre660

So negative X1000 or OS4 reviews dont have impact to AmigaOne or OS4 sales and it is perfectly fine to have negative X1000 and OS4 comments, reviews and blogs. Nobody have reason to get mad about this X1000 column.

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:56:32
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@itix

Believe it or not I don't have read it yet nor I'm gonna read it either.

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Spectre660 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 16:57:22
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3891
From: Unknown

@itix

every thing is relative.

If you were to give a Non Amigan a free X1000 he or she would probably complain about it too.
No so if you were to give it to a Current Amigan .

Quote:

itix wrote:
@Spectre660

So negative X1000 or OS4 reviews dont have impact to AmigaOne or OS4 sales and it is perfectly fine to have negative X1000 and OS4 comments, reviews and blogs. Nobody have reason to get mad about this X1000 column.

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klx300r 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 17:34:16
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3754
From: Toronto, Canada

@ Spirantho

well said and I can confirm a big +1 to your last 'fact'. I can honestly say that having my X1000 soon to be sitting right next to my Amiga 1000 will be priceless AND that is definitely a 'fact'

Last edited by klx300r on 25-Aug-2012 at 05:48 PM.

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Franko 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 17:35:48
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:

If you were to give a Non Amigan a free X1000 he or she would probably complain about it too.
No so if you were to give it to a Current Amigan .


Erm... no...

I am a current Amigan and I could almost guarantee you if I were given a free X1000 I would most likely have lots of things to complain about it... (just because it's free doesn't mean it's good)...

You see as someone else here has said not all of us Amiga users want, need or even like OS 4. It's fine if you are one of the ones whom enjoy it and I say that is good...

But there are still many of us for whom "Classic" Amiga hardware & "Classic" OS (3.9 and under) are perfectly suitable and all that we require from an Amiga but it doesn't mean to say we don't want more...

None of us are right or wrong in our choices be it "Classic" or "NG", if it suits you and serves your purposes then why not just use it instead of comparing the two and finding faults with each others choice....

I would even care to wager that should the NatAmi ever get released (something I have eagerly been awaiting) I would most likely find something to "complain" about that too...

When it comes to the Amiga in this day and age I see two choices...

Choice A: Express your views on what's wrong/ needed/ wanted...

Like everything in life, there's always room for improvement and if people didn't "complain" or as I like to look at it "express their views/ opinions" on what's missing or how x product could do with having xyz on it, then nothing would ever get updated or improved upon as there would be no need if we were all satisfied by what we already have...


Choice B: Be happy with what you have and wait and hope for something better...

Be it "Classic" or "NG" those "improvements" we all seek are few and far between. To me it's simple, enjoy what you have and use it and if we're really, really lucky then someday someone may come along with with all those things we've been wishing for but until then while I suppose there harm in posting endless wishlists, maybe its better to just enjoy what we have and quietly hope for something better...

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sundown 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 18:08:21
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@itix

Quote:
Let me ask it this way: why it is important to X1000 owners to tell they are very happy with their purchase? Why should we other Amiga users be interested about it? Why mention it all that user X has bought X1000? Why?

Because we are & we can....

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Aslak3 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 18:43:29
#120 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@sundown

Damn right. 'Scuse me for butting in and I only just got here and all that, but what you do with your money is only your business. If you want to tell people about it, well, this is an amiga forum afterall. I'd be wanting to tell people if I had a X1000.

People buy all kinds of products which most people would never buy. It's like a tailored suit, or a hand-made kitchen; you can go for one of those "probably as good" mass produced ones. But some people don't want to, and good for them.

Lawrence

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