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      /  They are hitting hard, here
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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 18:45:31
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

It's very simple. If you like it, you buy it. If you don't, then pass by.

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wawa 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 18:57:12
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
Let me ask it this way: why it is important to X1000 owners to tell they are very happy with their purchase? Why should we other Amiga users be interested about it? Why mention it all that user X has bought X1000? Why?

i for my part am interested.

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kamelito 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 25-Aug-2012 20:35:25
#123 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 793
From: Unknown

@paolone

I don't speak Italian so is the author using an X1000 to form his opinion?
Kamelito

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ribdevil 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 9:53:39
#124 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2010
Posts: 260
From: Vigo - Galicia - Spain

@kamelit0

Touche !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

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paolone 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 13:45:51
#125 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1126
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

I don't get the point in your question. He wrote a personal opinion. Do you need to own or try everyting, before having a opinion about it? That's weird.

If you'd apply this rule to everything in the real life, atheists should pray for every god blessed on earth before thinking there's no god. Doctors should get ill of every disease before curing them. You'd vote for all political parties before choosing the one you agree with: moreover, you'd think and act in every way, before telling it's good or wrong. You should use drugs before saying they are bad, and so on.

We're not in the domain of kids saying they don't like food before even tasting it. Processor speed, software availability, general performances and price of the X1000 are publicly available and perfectly known, you don't need to buy a X1000 to decide you won't ever buy one. And - editorially speaking - you'd need to own or try something to write a review. Cesare, however, didn't write any review, but just an opinion column based on facts.

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KimmoK 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 13:50:37
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@thread

Good that those articles are in italian, I do not need to read the blahblah.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 14:01:17
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@paolone

Actually you're wrong here. How you can say your opinion without trying it first? Just from rumours or what others have to say?

How it will sound to your ears, if someone creates a thread and say how bad is Icaros Desktop because of this and that, based upon of what he heard from other people, what he seen in the forums, without trying it first by himself?

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OlafS25 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 14:16:57
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6092
From: Unknown

@Phantom

To compare X1000 with standard hardware shows that a person does not understand what the purpose is. It is not designed to compete on the broad market but a computer designed for a limited number of special fans (AOS). Not more or less...

But generally you can compare global ideas and concepts, I can compare these global concepts, f.e. processor and speed, rest of hardware, price, existing software, opensource or closed source, drivers...

Of course you cannot compare in detail video-playback, usuability and so on without really using it yourself

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 14:25:13
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Yes, but you cannot say such an 'opinion' in public or in a show without using it first. For me it's pointless.

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Franko 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 14:34:13
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@Phantom

Quote:

Phantom wrote:
@paolone

Actually you're wrong here. How you can say your opinion without trying it first? Just from rumours or what others have to say?

How it will sound to your ears, if someone creates a thread and say how bad is Icaros Desktop because of this and that, based upon of what he heard from other people, what he seen in the forums, without trying it first by himself?


Your sorta right but...

Before you buy any "big" product then surely you at least read or listen to what others "opinions" are on it before you finally decide to buy, or maybe you don't...

I know before I buy something like this I tend to ask other people, read reviews, listen to opinions etc.. before deciding for myself whether to splash the cash on something...

It kinda makes sense to do so (I think), you can indeed have an opinion on something without actually buying it or even having used it, put it this way I would never have bought an Amiga in the first place if I hadn't read other peoples "opinions" on it or what the magazines at the time had to say about it (even though many of them based their articles and opinions on the specs and what they had heard and didn't even have their hands on one)...

Everyones opinion is valid (whether they have actually used the thing or not) as long as they have done enough research on the product beforehand and are satisfied with what they have learned to create that opinion...

Just because someone has bought something and used it doesn't automatically make their opinion any more valid than anyone else's opinion, you never know they may have bought a lemon and just tell others it's great so that they'll buy it too and make them feel better for not being the only one to buy something that wasn't any good... it does happen...

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wawa 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 14:57:56
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Phantom
Quote:
Actually you're wrong here. How you can say your opinion without trying it first? Just from rumours or what others have to say?


Quote:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/scalos/files/41.8-rc1/scalos-amigaos3.lha/download


following your logic i wouldnt be allowed to have and voice an opinion on fascists or ku-klux-klan without being one fo them. please dont take this comparison too literal, no offence meant, but there are things i have an opinion about without being and wanting to be involved. im sure you do too.

Last edited by wawa on 26-Aug-2012 at 03:07 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 26-Aug-2012 at 02:58 PM.

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 15:13:58
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@wawa & @Franko

Probably you didn't understand, and that's my fault of not using the correct words in english. Either way, yes you can have an opinion, opinions are like *****, but you cannot start a show with audience and start your ****** about something you haven't even seen. It's quite different than posting in forums like here in my opinion.

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wawa 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 15:45:30
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Phantom

i guess the person in question might very well have seen os4. also there are facts posted on forums first hand, like by trevor, we dont need to have os4 to have opinion about, just facts. and in fact i have an impression that many of whom you may count as "other camp" have at least an access to os4 and use it occasionally even if not advocating it. i know some developers for sure both in mos and aros field. on the other hand it is quite frequent that people who dont have (never tried) it or have bought it, but dont use it except maybe booting up every two months to check if their 3000$ machine is still working, have very strong opinions in favor of os4.

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Franko 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 15:48:43
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@Phantom

Like everything in life people are different and have different views/ opinions on everything in life (whether they own/ use something or not)...

Take the Apple crowd for instance, many of them will queue around the block for anything Apple releases, despite the fact all they generally have to go on are some specs and the odd "opinion" or two they read online made by others whom more often than not have never even held or used the new product themselves...

I'm not saying they're right or wrong but someone can form a perfectly valid opinion on something (in this case the X1000) and speak that opinion without having used it or owned it as long as they have done enough research into the product and are not just speaking on what they THINK that product might be like...

After all do you (or I ) know how much research the guy your talking about here did first... I don't, so I'm not going to tell him his opinion is not correct or valid just because he hasn't used or bought the thing...

Everyday life is full of opinions made by all of us on things, whether we've actually owned or used something or not, it doesn't mean to say those opinions are not valid or accurate, like I said even owning something and using it doesn't automatically means that persons opinion on something is more valid or accurate than someone else's...

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Phantom 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 15:55:34
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@Franko

Opinions are only opinions. If you want to hear them then be my guest, if not then you can easily pass by. I think that this thread leads to nowhere mate.

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paolone 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 17:15:59
#136 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1126
From: Unknown

@Phantom

Quote:
How it will sound to your ears, if someone creates a thread and say how bad is Icaros Desktop etc etc


I would answer, trying being objective. And then, it depends: "how bad" can mean a lot of things and you have to see the context. If you tell how bad Icaros Desktop is about editing videos and creating powerpoint presentations, I absolutely can't say anything. You don't even need to test the distribution: just notice there isn't any serious or at least prosumer-level video editing application available for AROS, and you can conclude Icaros Desktop is pure shit in this department.

There is, indeed, a little difference talking about X1000 and Icaros. The former is a hardware system, the latter is a software distribution. Hardware is easily valuable in terms of price, performances, architecture, features and software availability, you don't really need to own it to figure out if you like it or not. Moreover, unless the produces sends you a item to test and review it, you'd have to pay a considerable amount of money - which is something editors don't do "for the glory" or for the little money they get from the publisher for a single column.

Icaros Desktop is free to use, which makes it considerably easier to test. And, when it comes with bad mouthing, people can easily test it and answer there are many mistakes, if they wish to. After all these rants about Cesare's words, I could never find a real answer. "You're wrong because...". Nothing. Just only some nonsenses about editors should try to understand which is the aim of this computer, or about the fact - let's call it a fact - that its scope is not delivering results in a reasonable amount of time, but just running a OS. People don't run OSes, people run PROGRAMS, and that's what the X1000 is expected to do.

If I see a computer running less programs and slower than others, then it's not a better computer, it doesn't matter what OS is running.

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kamelito 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 17:51:20
#137 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 793
From: Unknown

@paolone

So every magazines doing reviews since ages didn't really have the products weird...
Kamelito

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sundown 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 19:24:09
#138 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@wawa & all

Quote:
on the other hand it is quite frequent that people who dont have (never tried) it or have bought it, but dont use it except maybe booting up every two months to check if their 3000$ machine is still working, have very strong opinions in favor of os4.

The x1000 main target was existing A1 users that wanted a better/faster system & have used os4 for years. Guys like me, a micro for 6 years, & I'm into graphic, which require as much grunt as I can get, a very nice upgrade from the micro. The negative comments are because the new guys buying them have an os4 learning curve & a new system to learn, its common to blame problems on the OS/system instead of themselves. All OS's have bugs, os4 is no exception, but they do get fixed if reported. Those that have had problems with their x1000 were from lose cards/cables or mis-configed settings. Those who don't/can't/ buy or hate os4, will always pick out the bad side & post it as fact. I thought my micro was fast vs my A4000T/060, but the x1000 makes the micro look like its locked up at times.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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paolone 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 21:07:14
#139 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1126
From: Unknown

Quote:

kamelit0 wrote:
@paolone

So every magazines doing reviews since ages didn't really have the products weird...
Kamelito


Magazines that write REVIEWS have the products.
Editors that write OPINIONS may not have the products, it's not strictly necessary.

Cesare's article is NOT a REVIEW. Is a OPINION about how much future the X1000 may have according to its price, performances, processor costs and difficulty of provisioning, etcetera. There isn't ANY judgement or evaluation about the machine per se, there isn't any vote, there isn't any subjective criticism about his like or dislike for the machine. There is NOTHING which REQUIRES a deep test of the X1000.

And yes, I wrote in capital letters because they are easier to understand, since cursive ones didn't work for you. I already expressed all these arguments here, but your last message just proves it's actually been pointless.

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pavlor 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Aug-2012 21:42:02
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9367
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:
There is NOTHING which REQUIRES a deep test of the X1000.


My fault, I thought his X1000 was broken. If he thinks he must write 3 "hateful" articles about computer he didn´t use (and will never use), why not. I look forward to his next blogpost - it is good to know how others use their skills of subtle propaganda.

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