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      /  SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
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duga 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 11:30:31
#21 ]
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Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@joeled

What is still missing in the 460ex sound driver version 6.3? I thought everything was okay since this version was released in May?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 11:42:51
#22 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11663
From: Norway

@Aslak3

Quote:
With enough clout to play most AVIs, and above all the hardware works NOW.


on the Sam440, if its low quality AVI's then yes, overlay will help you scale up your low quality videos to cover what ever resolution on your screen.

Sam440 is slower then AmigaONE-XE.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Sep-2012 at 11:45 AM.

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 11:49:19
#23 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Sam460 has many times faster RAM it helps in all applications, and also PCIe is way faster the old PCI66/AGP2 bus.

Graphic card that has Overlay (Radeon 9250) is way superior to software scaling, only a few % to show the video no matter if the video cover big screen resolution or small one, it uses the same % of CPU, (But you can't play HD video, due to amount of data to process)

Besides the form factor and connectivity the Sam460 is a better machine.


Yes the DDR1 and old style PCI on the 440 were current tech about 10 years ago. I remember buying a p2 500 MHz board in 2000 and the tech on the 440 is only slightly more advanced.

But it's software support which matters too. No point having a board which you can't use half the parts. And when you mix it with no overlay....

IF there was a known date for when the 460 is going to get DMA and a card with overlay (or 3D) I would be thinking differently....

The other thing I'm conscious of is even the 440 is probably 100 times faster then my beloved 1200

Lawrence

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duga 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 12:01:39
#24 ]
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Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

The DDR1 memory on the 440 is apparently only 32 bit compared to regular DDR1 that is 64 bit.

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 12:13:59
#25 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@duga

That explains acube's comment about "printer memory". Has anyone got any comparative CPU benchmarks for the various amiga boards?

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Spectre660 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 12:33:16
#26 ]
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Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3889
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

Playback with overlay. Amiga OS 4.1 Update 4

Sam 440ep-Flex 800mhz Rsdeon 9250 with overlay

9.WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/Test/big_buck_bunny_480p_surround-fix.avi
Video: AVI, 854 x 480, 24.00 fps
Audio: none
Total Nr of Frames: 2494
Nr of Frames played: 1625
Nr of Frames skipped: 869 (35%)
Total Playback Time: 103.839 seconds
Average Framerate: 24.018 fps
Displayed Framerate: 15.649 fps

AmigaOne 500 with overlay Radeon 9250 PCI and onboard SATA Controller
OS 4.1 update 5

6.SDBoot:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media:Test/big_buck_bunny_480p_surround-fix.avi
Video: AVI, 854 x 480, 24.00 fps
Audio: none
Total Nr of Frames: 2792
Nr of Frames played: 2761
Nr of Frames skipped: 31 (2%)
Total Playback Time: 116.269 seconds
Average Framerate: 24.013 fps
Displayed Framerate: 23.747 fps


Little playback comparison with no overlay . Amiga OS 4.1 Update 5

Sam 440ep-flex 800 mhz

9.WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media:Test/big_buck_bunny_480p_surround-fix.avi
Video: AVI, 854 x 480, 24.00 fps
Audio: none
Total Nr of Frames: 2872
Nr of Frames played: 1062
Nr of Frames skipped: 1810 (64%)
Total Playback Time: 363.413 seconds
Average Framerate: 7.903 fps
Displayed Framerate: 2.922 fps

Amigaone 500

11.WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media:Test/big_buck_bunny_480p_surround-fix.avi
Video: AVI, 854 x 480, 24.00 fps
Audio: none
Total Nr of Frames: 8903
Nr of Frames played: 8398
Nr of Frames skipped: 505 (6%)
Total Playback Time: 370.890 seconds
Average Framerate: 24.004 fps
Displayed Framerate: 22.643 fps



Last edited by Spectre660 on 08-Sep-2012 at 01:05 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 08-Sep-2012 at 12:41 PM.

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:09:18
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@Spectre660

Thanks! The numbers look dire even with overlay on the sam440.

Conclusion has to be that without overlay the 500 is still lots better then the sam440 WITH overlay, which I don't quite understand...

But I assume these vids aren't being full screened?

Lawrence

Last edited by Aslak3 on 08-Sep-2012 at 01:11 PM.

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Spectre660 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:16:03
#28 ]
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Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3889
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

They were full screened .

Last edited by Spectre660 on 08-Sep-2012 at 01:16 PM.

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:20:54
#29 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@Spectre660

Right.

Question. How shockingly slow is your disk on the sam460 without DMA...

Lawrence

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:24:25
#30 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11663
From: Norway

@Aslak3

Remeber no aid from video decoding hardware.

It is the compression and the amount of data that is the problem, AMCC440 is not a fast CPU.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Sep-2012 at 12:18 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:25:51
#31 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11663
From: Norway

@Aslak3

It is fully usable whit out DMA, but the CPU peeks higher then it should

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Spectre660 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:52:34
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3889
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

There was some pixelization in the video playback.
I actually had to boot from a USB Pendrive as Uboot would not recognize the hard drive.
Once booted the drive was shown in OS4.1, due to this I only loaded DVplayer and played the video from the onboard SATA connector.


Quote:

Aslak3 wrote:
@Spectre660

Right.

Question. How shockingly slow is your disk on the sam460 without DMA...

Lawrence

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Spectre660 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 8-Sep-2012 13:56:12
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3889
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

Some tests I did a while ago with update 4. The Sam will play back a 720x304 video in full screen without frameskip with overlay

=================================================================--
Results from A Sam440ep-Flex 800 with Radeon HD4800 via PCIE adapter

WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/DVDS/Viewed/Limitless {2011} DVDRIP.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 44100 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4358
Nr of Frames played: 1514
Nr of Frames skipped: 2844 (66%)
Total Playback Time: 181.746 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.978 fps
Displayed Framerate: 8.330 fps

Results from Same machine with Radeon 9250 and overlay.

8.WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/DVDS/Viewed/Limitless {2011} DVDRIP.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 44100 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4364
Nr of Frames played: 4364
Nr of Frames skipped: 0 (0%)
Total Playback Time: 182.037 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.973 fps
Displayed Framerate: 23.973 fps

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realize 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 9-Sep-2012 8:16:09
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@ OP

There is a Sam 440 on US Ebay right now going for around $250. Check it out!

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 9-Sep-2012 10:46:09
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@realize

Yeah I have my eye on it.

Lawrence

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Antique 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 9-Sep-2012 11:08:21
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2005
Posts: 887
From: Norway

@Aslak3

If money is not an issue, i'd go for the 460. I've had them both in the past.

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 12-Sep-2012 23:11:21
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

I'm going to order the 460 board, from AmigaKit, as soon as they let me know how much for the board (etc) in a decent case. My new Amiga deserves a nice case!

I can live without overlay. It's a small thing to lack, in the grand scheme of things, and is hopefully only temporary anyway.

The 440 system....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110947745705?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_500wt_926

Went for $590. I actually bid on it ($550 in the last few seconds), but am sort of glad I got outbid as I can now get something more powerful, and modern.

(While on ebay I couldn't help but get a "new" A1200 - 70, and it has a external floppy and loads of games. It's now running with my old 1GB CF and 030 Blizzard board. My old '1200 has duff sound (probably blown caps) and is really yellow.... I'm sad to let it go, hopefully someone will give me a few quid for it as "parts", but this "new" one looks brand new in comparison and can keep me entertained until the SAM460 arrives!)

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Aslak3 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 15-Sep-2012 17:59:39
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

Ordered a SAM460 from AmigaKit!

Went for a better case though as the standard case appears to be one of those where you loose the skin off your knuckles getting a card in and out of the case. Sorry AmigaKit, but you should really be looking at a better case for a computer that costs a grand.

Can't $%@ing wait for it to turn up now...

Lawrence

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ikir 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 20-Sep-2012 9:50:46
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5646
From: Italy

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Aslak3

It is fully usable whit out DMA, but the CPU peeks higher then it should

Without DMA is quite a nightmare imho. My SSD could go about 120MB/s but it stops only at 12-14Mb/s with high use cpu. Imho DMA should be a top priority.

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2GB RAM, 120GB Crucial v4 SSD, 32GB SDHC
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: SAM440 vs SAM460 and what to do
Posted on 20-Sep-2012 10:11:01
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11663
From: Norway

@ikir

Yes but now that you have on board audio, you don't need audio card in the PCI slot, now you can use it for SATA controller, so you should be possible to upgrade your self out of that problem.

And if you where using the PCI slot for R.250 card, is only question of time before R.HD drivers are ready whit 3D support, but yes it does replace R.250 completely spanking of video texture (replacement for overlay).

Juts one more PCI slot and the Sam460 might have been excellent.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Sep-2012 at 11:28 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Sep-2012 at 10:16 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Sep-2012 at 10:14 AM.

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