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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 2:27:35
#241 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

In case anyone is interested in resolution:

the followup on the legalities raised in post #240

#6


Last edited by number6 on 21-Sep-2014 at 02:30 AM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 4:32:16
#242 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Rob

Answering here, since you pointed to this thread in the Amiga.org thread I linked to above:

Quote:
Regardless of this, Amiga Inc still owns the brand and trademarks and it is those marks this guy was infringing


I hate to keep repeating myself...Gateway (now Acer's property)

Quote:
since 2000, this Amiga intellectual property has been licensed to Amiga, Inc.


Source

As has been stated numerous times before, there is a problem here. As only a licensee, Amiga Inc. might not have quite the power to enforce as you might think. Then again, perhaps everything posted concerning the difference in rights is pure speculation.

Quote:
In a way, the new "Amiga" companies got what they wanted: complete confusion.


never were truer words written

#6

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Rob 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 5:00:21
#243 ]
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Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5928
From: S.Wales

@number6

Is that wiki reliable. I'm not in the mood for digging out old press releases but I seem to remember that Gateway only retained to the patents, to which Amiga Inc were granted a license.

@Roberto J. Dohnert

If you can manage to find your way here.

Quote:
No, he was infringing the "Amiga Mini" mark, which is a totally different mark and is owned by CUSA. This was as per the agreement Barry had with McEwen thats why the contract also called for CUSA to pursue any copyright or infringement claims.


It doesn't matter whether he's calling it the Amiga Mini or the Amiga Groß hes' still using Amiga Inc's trademarks. Namely the checkmark and Amiga (Escom era) logos.

See here.

http://slandon110.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/amigamini.jpg

Have I made it clear enough for you now.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 5:32:24
#244 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Rob

Quote:
Is that wiki reliable.


You could always submit what you believe to be true and wait for Acer's response?

Quote:
I'm not in the mood for digging out old press releases


ok

You might find this interesting regardless:

Acer own the Amiga Name and IP

You'll find other threads on Amiga.org discussing the exact same thing.
But again, these people might all be delusional. Heh.

#6

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 5:33:56
#245 ]
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Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

@Rob

If i was to name a piece of hardware I sold the AmigaOne X1000/64 for example, who would have to enforce that? Thats Trevor or Matthew or whoever is running AmigaKit right now. CUSA was under license and used the term Amiga Mini. It is their mark. It is their product. The way that Barry had secured that deal whatever they made and marketed was theirs and their marks. So it falls under CUSA to enforce "Amiga Mini". Could Amiga go after him for the check mark and the style, yes. For the boing ball, no. They dont own the boing ball. Now if this guy called it just an Amiga or used a combination of terms not owned by anyone else and used the checkmark and the styling then that falls under the IP owner, or in Amiga Inc.'s case the exclusive licensee. Its no different if I was to license the term Microsoft from Microsoft, for example and call my product Microsoft Linux and someone came up with a Microsoft Linux/2 that falls under me to go after that person and pursue legal claims because then its my mark, my branding and it falls under me. Now if somebody comes along and names their product Microsoft BSD. That would then fall under Microsoft to pursue them for copyright infringement. Amiga Inc. the license they issued to CUSA states that they can co-promote the products CUSA made, Amiga Inc could put ad's for CUSA's Amiga products on their website. But Amiga Inc could not put out a product, call it the Amiga Mini because CUSA could turn around and sue them.

In this case, when you license somebody the ability to create a derivative work of your product and they establish marks and branding, it falls under the licensee to enforce it. So this case for Amiga Mini falls under the Altmans to pursue, not Amiga Inc. In the case of Amiga when you license and sublicense and sublicense some more you enforcemnt option and the path you take for enforcement dilutes. Like I said on Amiga.org, too many licensee's not enough product.

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Darrin 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 17:09:45
#246 ]
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Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 1941
From: Lake Charles, USA

@RobertJDohnert

The problem is, I can't believe that a company called Amiga would effectively sign away all of the rights to making Amiga computers to a 3rd party and leave enforcing the trademark to them. It doesn't make much sense I'm afraid.

I'd like to see the actual contract and the fine print. I can believe that C-USA entered into a license to use the Amiga name on computers, but I see no evidence of Kickstart or Workbench (OS) licensing (such as Cloanto's).

What would also be interesting (and what might be in the fine print) are any limitations on sub-licensing (partner companies only?) or what happens should they fail to defend the trademark.

As neither of us is probably going to see the actual contract, all we can do is speculate. There may even be more clauses that could complicate it even more if no products are being brought to marked and the name is just being "sat on".

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 17:16:43
#247 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Darrin

It's complicated.

And when you mix operating system with the h/w naming, even moreso.

Remember (no let's NOT detail this too much) AROS/CUSA? It was Ben Hermans, in that case who was forced to defend. The quote is easily found here.

#6

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Rob 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 17:51:48
#248 ]
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Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5928
From: S.Wales

@number6

Do Acer maintain that wik or monitor it for changes?

The press release says that Gateway only retained the patents, everything else was sold to Amino. If this was incorrect, I'd have though it would have corrected at the time with a subsequent press release.

I'm more inclined to believe the press releases from the time than some forum user's interpretation 10 year down the line.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 18:00:07
#249 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Rob

Quote:
The press release says that Gateway only retained the patents, everything else was sold to Amino. If this was incorrect, I'd have though it would have corrected at the time with a subsequent press release.


I think this says something different than what you are quoting?

http://news.cnet.com/Gateway-unloads-Amiga-name/2100-1040_3-235099.html

And once we see variances amongst the press releases and statements of fact like "all those kinds of things", I think one must go looking for the actual contract to see what is what. However, I respect your opinion if you believe this is all clear.

You bring up a good question though. What would constitute a believable source in this case?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 21-Sep-2014 at 06:14 PM.

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Rob 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 18:19:28
#250 ]
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Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5928
From: S.Wales

@RobertJDohnert

The important thing to note here is that CUSA never used the Amiga Technologies logo with or without the Mini suffix.

In fact if we look deeper into this, did CUSA even create an "Amiga Mini" trademark or was it never anything more than a model designation.

I'm not saying that CUSA don't have there own case, just that Amiga Inc aren't somehow excluded from making a case.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-Sep-2014 14:32:25
#251 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@CritAnime

I see that CommodoreUSA Facebook is reporting:

Quote:
One of our members has sent us a message recently to say that he is now the proud owner of these injection molds which was used to create the original C64 casing!


Source

Poked around a bit:

Found this

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Sep-2014 at 03:29 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 2-Oct-2014 14:57:49
#252 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@CritAnime

Hardly news, but still...

Logo change from Sean.

Was

Current

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 10-Nov-2014 18:02:07
#253 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Quote:
A certain commercial company has a license from Amiga Inc.


so possibly related.

Source

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 10-Nov-2014 18:46:41
#254 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

New information. Same forum as above.

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 11-Nov-2014 15:18:50
#255 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

I am genuinely perplexed by a discussion taking place here:

http://www.amigaforum.de/index.php?topic=23.msg104#new

Keeping mind that Amiga Washington is dead and licenses were issued prior to that included in the discussion in this very thread about existing licenses...

Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Amiga Inc. is issuing new licenses? Seriously? How are people making this leap?

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 18:05:56
#256 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@Darrin

Referring to post #235 this thread:

Quote:
Selling the remaining stock... I wonder how many they have. There should be a few retro fans willing to pay $250 and at least they won't end up in a trashcan.


I seemed to have missed this update

Quote:
Many folks have tried to purchase this from Jeremy but haven't received their shipment. Several people have requested and received refunds through paypal; the page (Harry & Jason) would like to hear from you ordered and have or have not rec'd a computer from Jeremy. I have msg'd Jeremy many times to get an update but haven't heard from him. If he does msg me, I will let everyone know - yours with concern, Harry. (July 25, 2014)


Did anyone here order and receive a case from Jeremy's initial offer?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 01-Dec-2014 at 06:07 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 12-Mar-2015 13:01:11
#257 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Regarding post #251 in this thread and the 2 links:

ongoing thread same topic

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 26-Mar-2015 15:50:23
#258 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

Interesting to note that after much discussion of the new cases, a poster mentions:

Quote:
it's good to know that we can purchase the exterior of the C64C but I think we need the interior as well.


After which someone write to Jens Schoenfeld and gets a response:

Quote:
Hi,
utsource will list *every* chip as "available". It doesn't mean that they really are available. I'm open to real addresses/phone numbers of non-brokers (i.e. people who have actual stock and aren't afraid to talk to me).
thanks,
--
Jens Schönfeld


Source

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 12-Apr-2015 13:40:20
#259 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

After receiving a cease & desist from C=Holdings B.V., the case makers have made some statements, as the thread has grown.

There has been talk of buying stickers as opposed to engraving, information on the other molds, etc.

Sales/pledges for these cases are very high relatively speaking, and generating more interest each passing day. I see Jim Drew posting as well.

Entire thread worth a look

#6

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 13-Apr-2015 22:34:44
#260 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@CritAnime

Have you got anything from Sean Donohue lately that you can post public?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 24-Jun-2017 at 10:22 PM.

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