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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  A4000T, auction end price
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Poll : A4000T auction end price
Between 10000 and 16000
Between 6000 and 10000
Between 4000 and 6000
Between 2000 and 4000
Between 0 and 2000
It won't sell
Pancakes
 
PosterThread
blizz1220 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 18:09:16
#41 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Bobo

Because Sonet card with 1 Ghz costs less then 50 $.

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Bobo 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 18:30:54
#42 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2012
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

And where to plug it?

Amiga has Zorro, Zorro hasn't proper DMA to operate Sonnet
Marvell Discovery II has

Last edited by Bobo on 13-Jun-2013 at 06:44 PM.

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blizz1220 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 18:51:47
#43 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Bobo

You would need Amiga 1200T or 4000T with Mediator
board that ads PCI slots to Amigas.

Problem is only the firmware that you would need
to rewrite and program so OS4 bootloader can
work with it or possibly rewrite the bootloader
itself.Hyperion would have to support this and
give information and code.You would also need
some sort of 68k to boot machine I guess.

With Hyperion support this could be done cheaply
and in a short time period.

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Bobo 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:02:27
#44 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2012
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Problem is that M@diator hasn't DMA for Sonnet - it won't work

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blizz1220 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:11:32
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Bobo

Whatever makes you think that?

Elbox seems to have thought otherwise and
they should now , they made it

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Bobo 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:21:28
#46 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2012
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Made what? New fashion cooler for Sonnet or DMA for G4?
If they made last Shark was on sale about 6 years

PS Almost 10 000 pounds - no bid...

Last edited by Bobo on 13-Jun-2013 at 07:31 PM.

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blizz1220 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:32:19
#47 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Bobo

They made Mediator PCI if I recall correctly

Even PPC 604 at 200 Mhz will only work at half of
it's potential speed when you hook it up to Amiga's bus.
Amiga's weren't designed for this kind of hardcore
modding and can only do so much with technology
that came years after they were designed.Still G4 would
offer big speed boost over 604.

Anyway , I'm done , thread waaaay of topic , sorry ...

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Bobo 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:39:22
#48 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2012
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@Bobo

They made Mediator PCI if I recall correctly


Yes, they made but forgot to make proper DMA arbitrator
So almost all cards which use DMA can't work

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blizz1220 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:48:36
#49 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Bobo

It can be done and you don't understand PCI ...

Wkipedia says :

A PCI architecture has no central DMA controller, unlike ISA.
Instead, any PCI component can request control of the bus
("become the bus master") and request to read from and write
to system memory.

Bye

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Bobo 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 19:52:57
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2012
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

can be... on 680x0 local bus

and you don't understand Zorro III

see you

PS well, below 10 000 A4000T owners are failed....

Last edited by Bobo on 13-Jun-2013 at 09:02 PM.

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majsta 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 21:34:26
#51 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

Hi :)

Like i said number times before someone convinced Amiga community that all people think that there is something special in creating accelerator card with some CPU. Drive all signals to FPGA or something and inside do a little magic. Those days CPU can easily emulate MC68K at much higher speeds so thinking something like ARM is maybe better solution. Main problem with Sonnet is that there is no documentation and I have contacted manufacturer and they don't intend to give it to anyone so conclusion is that it is easier to create such accelerator with PPC from scratch than to spend time investigating how something work and what designer wanted to do with specific part. For me only solution is FPGA and creating accelerator cards in it will provide long life of CPU independence at last. About performance there is no practical limit I can see there. You have few choices
1. Creating much faster cache and expect 060 performance.
2. Including in one part coldfire who is actually integrated in some FPGA devices and inside FPGA you can emulate missing instructions.
3. In one part including NiosII part of Altera capable of producing 600Mips

So basically all the things needed to happen are between FPGA and FastRam what is done there will increase total performance.

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blizz1220 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 21:54:20
#52 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@majsta

Hi Majsta ,

I will start looking for an 1200 for you as of today

As for the Sonet , nice information ...
People here are mostly into OS4 , they wouldn't
really go for 060.

Would you be able (in theory) to recreate Blizzard
PPC in FPGA then and at what speed / price / time ?
It is PPC 604 Mhz CPU and you could go for say
20 Mhz 020 to save FPGA space.It would be mostly
used for OS4 so that 020 would hardly be in use
except when booting.

Love your work

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bitman 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 14-Jun-2013 9:18:09
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2008
Posts: 702
From: Fredericia, Denmark

@blizz1220

I don't think you're right about that - a lot of classic users woul love 060. And now: Back on Topic

Quote:
People here are mostly into OS4 , they wouldn't really go for 060.

_________________
Maintainer of www.bigbookofamigahardware.com

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number6 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 17:29:26
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10829
From: In the village

@thread

I have posted this several times, but here we go one more time...

There was already a "fixed DMA" mediator prototype.

There was intent to make the new accelerator with this as a base.

Politics and horrid communications killed it.

And there was a h/w and s/w team who've proven their skill, so let's not go there...

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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wawa 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 19:21:38
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6255
From: Unknown

@majsta

Quote:
Hi :) Like i said number times before someone convinced Amiga community that all people think that there is something special in creating accelerator card with some CPU. Drive all signals to FPGA or something and inside do a little magic. Those days CPU can easily emulate MC68K at much higher speeds so thinking something like ARM is maybe better solution. Main problem with Sonnet is that there is no documentation and I have contacted manufacturer and they don't intend to give it to anyone so conclusion is that it is easier to create such accelerator with PPC from scratch than to spend time investigating how something work and what designer wanted to do with specific part. For me only solution is FPGA and creating accelerator cards in it will provide long life of CPU independence at last. About performance there is no practical limit I can see there. You have few choices 1. Creating much faster cache and expect 060 performance. 2. Including in one part coldfire who is actually integrated in some FPGA devices and inside FPGA you can emulate missing instructions. 3. In one part including NiosII part of Altera capable of producing 600Mips So basically all the things needed to happen are between FPGA and FastRam what is done there will increase total performance.


good thougts.

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wawa 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 18-Jun-2013 19:27:03
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6255
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:
Would you be able (in theory) to recreate Blizzard PPC in FPGA then and at what speed / price / time ? It is PPC 604 Mhz CPU and you could go for say 20 Mhz 020 to save FPGA space.It would be mostly used for OS4 so that 020 would hardly be in use except when booting.


please dont push him into ppc like others here. his own considerations are pretty reasonable imho. and he has done pretty well working fpga accelerator fon an a600 himself:
http://www.majsta.com
btw. he is serbian too i guess ;)

Last edited by wawa on 18-Jun-2013 at 07:27 PM.

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bitman 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 4-Sep-2013 21:18:01
#57 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2008
Posts: 702
From: Fredericia, Denmark

@all

First auction in june for the A4000T ended without a sale (price got below reserve price) - so it's getting a last chance now as "auction item"- otherwise it will be sold in a "private deal".

Auction details can be found here:

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/commodore-amiga-4000t-for-sale.aspx



Last edited by bitman on 04-Sep-2013 at 09:20 PM.

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BigD 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 10-Feb-2020 17:26:12
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5106
From: UK

@bitman

Quote:

bitman wrote:
Those 4 who voted "Between 10000 and 16000", is it people who actually intend to bid in that range?



Almost 7 years on and it looks like people are now prepared to put their money where their mouth is! I'd expect this C= model to hit at least 8,000 this time around!

Ebay: Commodore Amiga 4000T

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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DiscreetFX 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 10-Feb-2020 18:58:44
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1770
From: Chicago, IL

@BigD

It's not even functional, forget that price.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

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amigadave 
Re: A4000T, auction end price
Posted on 10-Feb-2020 20:04:58
#60 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1563
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@thread

I have posted this several times, but here we go one more time...

There was already a "fixed DMA" mediator prototype.

There was intent to make the new accelerator with this as a base.

Politics and horrid communications killed it.

And there was a h/w and s/w team who've proven their skill, so let's not go there...

#6


Can you provide a link to somewhere I can read more about this prototype with "fixed DMA", and the team that was going to make this product happen, plus who's politics and lack of communication killed it?

_________________
"Amiga" - The computer that inspired people to invent and create!

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