@Senex

Quote:

Why small batch production? If one finally goes x86, just decide for one or two ready-made boards from a big volume supplier to be supported by "AmigaOS 5" and you're done.

+1. and why all hardware development investments? i always wonder about this mantra, one would have to build x86 hardware himself, as if it was necessary. on ppc there is no choice, and even there people suspect, acube has designed a board primary for the embedded market, delivering os4 systems "by the way". same with os4 netbook, if "amiga" hardware has to be genuine, then why limebook? morphos proves, you can provide very well supported "amiga" system for regular hardware and be done with it while concentrating on software.

this said, perhaps trevor has his reasons, he might establish himself as wide range ppc system vendor in a long run, independently of os4, which means aeon could conquer the market with apparently litte competition. this might be a flexible choice with an option to serve os4 but not being entirely dependent on its development.

all in all, having dual core board cheaper than x1k but clocked faster than sam is definitely a positive thing for (potential) customers if its financially doable and justified for aeon.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Cool_amigaN seriously for what doing a custom X86 board? There are tons of options sold in millions and everywhere available. No "custom board" could be better than these boards and it would be much more expensive. "Custom" is only ok if you develop something that is better suited than the existing choices (f.e. for a certain purpose), just doing something "custom" without any real benefit is completely senseless.

Are you on apple forums saying the same?

Last edited by Fransexy on 07-Jul-2013 at 09:49 AM.

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Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Quote:

Are you on apple forums saying the same? :rollingeyes:

Are you seriously comparing Apple and A-eon/Hyperion?

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@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Still, that would lead to different implications (software wise) that extent the scope of my original post. I just wanted to point out that be it PPC, ARM or x86, custom mobos equals to limited batches and that consequently rise substantially the NRE costs.

what implications? are you serious? think again! nre costs.. you wouldnt have to design hardware, you would need to write drivers, which you need to write anyway. yes, you would have to port the system over, thats an effort. but if you come with the argument about a necessity to support each and every x86 board, then why isnt that a showstopper while supporting gfx cards?

Last edited by wawa on 07-Jul-2013 at 09:52 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 07-Jul-2013 at 09:50 AM.

@Fransexy

Apple sells to a market in the millions and therefore can make their own designs without adding much cost to the induvidual units !

































And don't forget : cost != price

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- blame Canada

@OlafS25

this isnt aimed at you, but another thing thats completely senseless is talking as if AmigaOS would run on x86 motherboards in the first place!

until hyperion has their mind changed, AmigaOS will only run on new ppc hardware, and a side effect of that is relying on people like trevor to spend their own money to make these ppc motherboards.

others can talk about how things can be done cheaper until the cows come home, but unless they do their homework, they are just guessing.

maybe next time someone says that acube and a-eon are overcharging, i should ask them for their business plan for a ppc motherboard for this market, and watch as they cant do it as easily as random comments on a forum.

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@Fransexy

I hate Apple. Do I need to say more?

They are a american monopolist with a controversy religious strategy

@Kronos Quote:

Why doesn't one of the 2 companies atleast try what Genesi/bPlan did back with the Efika ?

You mean sell them at a loss (or with zero profit anyway), in the hope of attracting a bigger market, and when that fails to materialise stop selling them, move to ARM & leave the Amiga market?

Quote:

That is create a reasonable powerfull minimalistic board

They did. It was called the Sam440.

BTW, the Efika was underpowered (too little RAM for e.g. OWB, although it might have worked on OS4 since it supports swapping RAM to disk).

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@Fransexy

Quote:

Are you on apple forums saying the same?

very intelligent comment, very...

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @Fransexy Quote: Are you on apple forums saying the same? :rollingeyes: Are you seriously comparing Apple and A-eon/Hyperion?

They say that doing customs x86 motherbord without any real benefit is completely senseless.Apple don't get widely available motherboards, they made their own custom ones

Last edited by Fransexy on 07-Jul-2013 at 09:56 AM.

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Derfs

I only answered on Trevor talking about expensive custom designs based on X86. Migration to X86/X64 or ARM would be very time consuming and expensive so I do not believe that it will ever happen. For example one of the MorphOS developer estimated it would take several years for MorphOS and I do not think that Hyperion can do it faster.

@WolfToTheMoon
Congratulations on totally ignoring what I said, and simply using it as an excuse to repeat your unrealistic negativity. I won't make the same mistake of replying to you again.

Last edited by ChrisH on 07-Jul-2013 at 10:01 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Fransexy I hate Apple. Do I need to say more? They are a american monopolist with a controversy religious strategy

the only part i disagree with is the monopolist part as i cant see it myself, but maybe youre thinking of something i am not

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@wawa

Quote:

morphos proves, you can provide very well supported "amiga" system for regular hardware

Well supported is not right word, yet. Eg. current state of PowerMac G5 port is not ideal - only 1 GB RAM, no 16bit screen modes etc, problems with Radeon 9800 cards etc.

Quote:

all in all, having dual core board cheaper than x1k but clocked faster than sam is definitely a positive thing for (potential) customers if its financially doable and justified for aeon.

I think P5020 will be in most cases even faster than PA6T. Custom made motherboard has its advantages. Assuming x86 port is out of question, there aren´t many well documented PowerPC motherboards with semi-modern features (like PCIe). Here X1000 project shows its strong sides - 2D drivers for Radeon HD cards (up to HD7000!) and support for HDAudio standard.

@Senex Quote:

Why small batch production? If one finally goes x86, just decide for one or two ready-made boards from a big volume supplier to be supported by "AmigaOS 5" and you're done.

LOL. Who will write the drivers? And when they discontinue the x86 board in 6 months, who will write the drivers for the next version?

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@OlafS25

i understand, as i mentioned it wasnt really aimed at you.

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@Fransexy

Apple always was a monopolist, in the past a small one, now a bigger one. They want to make people dependent on their overprized hardware and software. They are at least as hated as loved (I think more people hating them). I am not sure if this is really the way to go.

@ChrisH

>You mean sell them at a loss (or with zero profit anyway),
>in the hope of attracting a bigger market, and when that fails to materialise stop

You have any proof for those claims ?

>selling them, move to ARM & leave the Amiga market?

What else was their to do when all "new" PPCs at that time were either crap or failed to materialise (some even managed both) ?

Quote:

That is create a reasonable powerfull minimalistic board

>They did. It was called the Sam440.

Nope, still to much fluff

>BTW, the Efika was underpowered (too little RAM for e.g. OWB,

It was NOT underpowered for what it was supposed to do (thin client running Linux) in 2005/6 and it was not underpowered for the Amiga/MorphOS-SW of that time.

>although it might have worked on OS4 since it supports swapping RAM to disk).
Doubt that ....

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Derfs

you have no problems when you only use apple products. If you do not want you are not able to use their services or have problems because it does not work completely (iPhone, iTunes and many others). They try to make people dependent on them.

@ChrisH

Quote:

BTW, the Efika was underpowered (too little RAM for e.g. OWB, although it might have worked on OS4 since it supports swapping RAM to disk).

I don´t think slow IDE of Efika would help with swapping.


Back to topic. Is Xorro/Xena part of Cyrus design? I think it could be that black slot between PCIe x4 and PCIe x1 (or PCI in case of micro-ATX). Am´I right?