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PosterThread
AmigaBlitter 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 23-Jul-2020 12:16:57
#321 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3434
From: Unknown

@thread

https://antmicro.com/blog/2020/07/antmicro-joins-openpower-qna/

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arthoropod 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 24-Jul-2020 11:22:04
#322 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 80
From: Gotham

@matthey

Yes, this IS the Power thread, not the ARM thread or the RISC-V thread.

And btw, I can't find many RISC-V boards that are suited to desktop use (actually, basically none), and the few that are are ludicrously high priced.

ARM's cheap, but most boards lack expansion slots.

130nm isn't that bad a process, but the 10mm die size is very limiting.



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matthey 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 24-Jul-2020 21:08:54
#323 ]
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Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 758
From: Kansas

Quote:

arthoropod wrote:
Yes, this IS the Power thread, not the ARM thread or the RISC-V thread.

And btw, I can't find many RISC-V boards that are suited to desktop use (actually, basically none), and the few that are are ludicrously high priced.

ARM's cheap, but most boards lack expansion slots.


It's important to pay attention to the competition as tech can change quickly. RISC-V has a lot of maturing to do but the availability of open cores by multiple developers is accelerating progress. The RISC-V ISA may lack the performance necessary for high end performance so is unlikely to be a threat to POWER for a long time, if ever. ARM AArch64 is still relatively new but processor designs are maturing quickly and the ISA is likely to provide better performance than RISC-V. While ARM cores are not open cores, licenses are affordable and reference cores are available to accelerate development. There are multiple developers developing cores for server and mid to high performance chips which threatens POWER and even x86_64. IBM is the only developer of POWER cores that I know of while now standardized ARM AArch64 and x86_64 chips have second or multiple suppliers. Would IBM have chosen the 8088 for the PC without AMD as a second source supplier yet expects customers to trust them as the only source of POWER? Is the power savings of POWER in the server market enough to justify the higher costs of sole development and margins IBM expects?

You probably want POWER on the desktop but the cost and high power requirements will probably limit penetration down into that market. I expect ARM designs have a better chance to move up into that market. Apple ARM desktop designs should have expansion and even with the Apple tax should be cheaper and more practical than any POWER desktop system.

Quote:

130nm isn't that bad a process, but the 10mm die size is very limiting.


If you just want a custom chip that is cheaper than an FPGA in quantity then 130nm is fine. If you care at all about performance and/or power then choosing a smaller process is worth considering. Too bad they don't have an option to pay the difference from 130nm to the process desired. The die area restriction wouldn't be so bad after a few die shrinks.

Intel announced today that their 7nm process will be delayed another 6 months and that they may use other companies to fab some of their chips. It's getting more and more impractical for chips to go smaller. I expect it is just a matter of time until other fab companies start to have similar problems going smaller. The playing field is slowly leveling and efficiency is becoming important again. POWER and x86_64 have little room to improve while competitors may find advantages and niches.

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