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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:27:26
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Boot_WB

Quote:
The Name?


The Name!

Not even the name, since in the manuals of the Amiga machines (so up to the Commodore Amiga 4000), there's no "AmigaOS" name reported.

I've downloaded and read them, and they report "Amiga operating system" usually. In the last ones (Amiga 1200 e 4000) I've read mostly "Amiga system". In the Amiga 3000 one I've also read that the AmigaDOS was reported as being the operating system of the machine.

Last but not least, on every manual there are reported only "Amiga", "Workbench", "Kickstart", and "AmigaDOS" has Commodore's trademarks. Of course, there's absolutely no "AmigaOS" trademark.

So, of what "Name" are you talking about? The one which was invented AFTER the Commodore bankrupt, by they new "creative" owners which only sold labels and stickers to collect money?

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:29:14
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@OlafS25

Quote:
They do not care much about if it runs on PPC or another hardware.


Just read some threads on Morphzone...

Old threads, I suppose, since they are mostly favorable to porting MorphOS to a different architecture, with x64 being in pole position.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:29:39
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9252
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

I sometimes like your walls of text.

Quote:
is still available, has been updated


From OS sources?

As far as we know, only Hyperion has access to AmigaOS source code.

Quote:
are not based on anything from Commodore at all


On the other hand, some parts didn´t change since 3.x days (ARexx, IconEdit and MEmacs...)

Quote:
REWRITES of the original source code


I fail to see what you want say. You mean Hyperion took original source code, improved it for use in newer compiler and used it as basis for OS4 project? Right?

Quote:
I fail to see how a video uploaded by Hyperion itself


Never heard of Gource?

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:34:15
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote:
@pavlor

We have no emotional ties to any specific CPU architecture.
[...]
An added benefit was that PPC was bi-endian so also big endian just like the 68K.

But that certainly is not the only architecture out there that is big or bi-endian.

It's not a benefit, but a requirement: you NEED an big-endian architecture in order to run old 68K, since the PowerPC port wasn't completed.

You still absolutely need it because you continue with patching the existing source code (both the original one and the rewritten one), since you're not able to even think about a full 64-bit version of the o.s., because it will break the compatibility with the existing software (both 68K and PowerPC).

P.S. Personally I'll appreciate if you use your own account instead of the generic Hyperion's one, in order to recognize the person with which we are talking about.

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number6 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:34:52
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Instead of digging up old graves, why not simply start a NEW thread, say what you want to say and make any number of links and referrals to whatever old posts you may find relevant in the context? It's not like the Internet is running out of bytes or anything. Bumping very old threads and lure people into discussing year-old subjects is bad Netiquette IMHO


I don't think it's quite so black and white. I can link you to any number of posts where I've stated I try to keep "similar" information together by topic.

Why?

Because many people don't have time to hunt and constantly complain about the search engines here. My methodology is in response to what users have told me, although I also understand your point. Back to square one...you can't please everyone. Heh.

#6

_________________
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*Secrecy has served us so well*

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:38:11
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9252
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
I've downloaded and read them


Try german-language documentation I pointed to:

eg. Amiga Hard Drive Benutzerhandbuch, 1992, p. 2-2, 3-4 etc.


To be fair, english documentation from Commodore doesn´t use AmigaOS (or derivatives).


As of common usage of word AmigaOS/Amiga OS I directed you to usenet discussions.

Side note: Still not found use of "Amiga o. s."

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:38:28
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@wawa

Quote:
that the work was done on amiga hardware as reference


There was no AmigaOne hardware back then...

That's not true: http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/prototypes/amigaone1.html

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:43:19
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote:
Well someone said that Exec and DOS was complete rewrites, so MAJOR parts of OS4 (the most important parts) are not based on anything from Commodore at all

Not only Exec and AmigaDOS. Hyperion reported: "we did start frm scratch with a complete reimplementation of Exec in C (ExecSG), an entirely new DOS library etc.".

In fact, other key components have to be rewritten or at least HEAVILY changed. Think about the graphics.library, for example, and for obvious reasons.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:43:40
#129 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

Not even the name, since in the manuals of the Amiga machines (so up to the Commodore Amiga 4000), there's no "AmigaOS" name reported.

I've downloaded and read them, and they report "Amiga operating system" usually. In the last ones (Amiga 1200 e 4000) I've read mostly "Amiga system". In the Amiga 3000 one I've also read that the AmigaDOS was reported as being the operating system of the machine.

Last but not least, on every manual there are reported only "Amiga", "Workbench", "Kickstart", and "AmigaDOS" has Commodore's trademarks. Of course, there's absolutely no "AmigaOS" trademark.

So, of what "Name" are you talking about? The one which was invented AFTER the Commodore bankrupt, by they new "creative" owners which only sold labels and stickers to collect money?


Commodore never released a product named "Amiga OS", it was always "Workbench". Workbench/Amiga OS 3.1 was released as a stand-alone product post Commodore's death, and this was the first version that had the "Amiga OS" name attached to it. But this doesn't really matters now, since Cloanto is the legitimate owner of the OS, and they market it under the name "Workbench" again, making "Amiga OS" a temporary (2 decades ) parenthesis!

So once and for all, the OS for Amigas is called Workbench and nothing else!



Edit: And the "NG" Operating Systems for "AmigaOne" is of course called "AmigaOS4" and soon "MorphOS" (AmigaOne 500 after the next release, AmigaOne X5000 possibly at version 3.10).

Last edited by TRIPOS on 03-May-2015 at 01:47 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:44:30
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9252
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
That's not true: http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/prototypes/amigaone1.html


I should write working AmigaOne hardware.

Last edited by pavlor on 03-May-2015 at 01:45 PM.
Last edited by pavlor on 03-May-2015 at 01:44 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:47:18
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5941
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

If I remember that time (up to early 90s) Workbench was used for the desktop but as OS and hardware were combined I never saw the OS as something different or as a product on its own. The product was "Amiga", a combination of hardware and OS. OS was called Workbench what was referring to the desktop. I have just looked in a old magazine, they are offering kickstarts 2.04, 3.1 and so on + installation disks. As OS and hardware was tightly connected I do not think that anyone saw the OS as something different.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-May-2015 at 01:56 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:49:33
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@cdimauro

Wait...you're quoting as fact a historical reference to Amigaones that reads:

Quote:
There is also less risk of outstanding bugs being present in the custom logic implementation, as it has already been tested by other large corporations.


(evil grin)

#6

_________________
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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:49:35
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9252
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
is of course called "AmigaOS4"


Well Hyperion favours plain "AmigaOS".

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:51:33
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
I've downloaded and read them


Try german-language documentation I pointed to:

eg. Amiga Hard Drive Benutzerhandbuch, 1992, p. 2-2, 3-4 etc.

Sorry, I've read only English documents from Commodore.

I'll take a look at this German one, but I doubt to find the AmigaOS trademark with the ones which I already cited. And it has to be seen if this is an exception or the regular rule for the official German documentation.
Quote:
To be fair, english documentation from Commodore doesn´t use AmigaOS (or derivatives).

Good. Finally we have an agreement on a very important thing.

So, "the Name" is not that important anymore, right?
Quote:
As of common usage of word AmigaOS/Amiga OS I directed you to usenet discussions.

You've talked about "the Name", and due to the context I understand that you were talking about official words.
Quote:
Side note: Still not found use of "Amiga o. s."

No, because this is my short-cut. I've already written about that in the other thread.

"operating system" wasn't shortened in the official documents, but reported entirely. I think that it's correct, since such documentation was written for the average Joe, which usually isn't aware of the meaning of the short-term.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:54:48
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

True, but they sold newer versions as updates for old Amigas though.

But it's a fact that the OS for Amigas is called Workbench today, and nothing else matters!

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:55:09
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9252
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
but I doubt to find the AmigaOS trademark with the ones which I already cited


I never wrote about trademarks...

Quote:
So, "the Name" is not that important anymore, right?


Did I said that?

Quote:
You've talked about "the Name", and due to the context I understand that you were talking about official words.


I wrote about usage of AmigaOS term. "The Name" is of course "Amiga".

Quote:
No, because this is my short-cut.


Never used by anyone else.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:57:18
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5941
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

The product was "Amiga", a combination of hardware and OS. OS was called Workbench what was referring to the desktop. I have just looked in a old magazine, they are offering kickstarts 2.04, 3.1 and so on + installation disks. As OS and hardware was tightly connected I do not think that anyone saw the OS as something different.

@Pavlor

"AmigaOS" or "Amiga OS" or similar must be a invention in later times

Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-May-2015 at 01:59 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:59:07
#138 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@cdimauro

Wait...you're quoting as fact a historical reference to Amigaones that reads:

Quote:
There is also less risk of outstanding bugs being present in the custom logic implementation, as it has already been tested by other large corporations.


(evil grin)

#6

That's why after that they have used the Teron board...

(more evil grin)

Last edited by cdimauro on 03-May-2015 at 02:07 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 14:04:22
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@cdimauro

Heh.

Anyway, just linking back to the answer to the question this thread is "supposed" to concern:

it's worth what someone will pay for it (/end debate)

We could have closed this thread after post #4, but no....Heh.

#6

_________________
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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 14:05:56
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
but I doubt to find the AmigaOS trademark with the ones which I already cited


I never wrote about trademarks...

Trademarks is what legally matters when we talk about official things.
Quote:
Quote:
So, "the Name" is not that important anymore, right?


Did I said that?

No, but you've recognized that there was no "AmigaOS" on the official Commodore's documents.

No "AmigaOS", no party.
Quote:
Quote:
You've talked about "the Name", and due to the context I understand that you were talking about official words.


I wrote about usage of AmigaOS term.

OK, but in other threads you've talked about "lineage" and legal successors.
Quote:
"The Name" is of course "Amiga".

Good. We agree.

But that's the whole machine. O
Quote:
Quote:
No, because this is my short-cut.


Never used by anyone else.

Because people prefer(ed) to write the extended version, like Commodore did.

Last edited by cdimauro on 03-May-2015 at 02:06 PM.

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