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Metalheart 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Sep-2014 17:58:42
#281 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@pavlor

So 128 Mb is not enough as far as I know for running OS4 and some applications, right ?
How can it be usefull this way ?

Or does the swap work different and more seemless in emulation ?

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Sep-2014 18:04:00
#282 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@Metalheart

Quote:
So 128 Mb is not enough as far as I know for running OS4 and some applications, right ?


128 is enough for OS, but not much left for applications (cca 80 MB). I don´t have OS4 yet, so I can´t tell how limiting SWAP is.

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Rob 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Sep-2014 19:52:44
#283 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5851
From: S.Wales

@Metalheart

Quote:
Was OS4 classic to be developed farther ? 4.2 4.3 and so on ? Or was support to be canceled with 4.1 ?


Multicore and Gallium are penned in for release 4.2. Neither will be of any use on 68k based hardware or certain NG machines that don't work with newer video cards.

Depending on whether or not there are enough other new features, a lower priced version of 4.2 could be released.

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Ancalimon 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 1:10:53
#284 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 428
From: Istanbul

@pavlor

Quote:
128 is enough for OS, but not much left for applications (cca 80 MB). I don´t have OS4 yet, so I can´t tell how limiting SWAP is.


Are there many applications that require more memory? I guess OS4 browsers would be limited to one tab at a time. Any other programs that require more memory?

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tlosm 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 6:11:25
#285 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2683
From: Amiga land

@Ancalimon
games need ram expecially the more modern
owb need ram
qt need ram
cygnix need ram
emulators need ram

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cdimauro 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 7:51:20
#286 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:
@phoenixkonsole

Pascal, if you want the best CPU for WinUAE OS4.1 emulation , than look at Core CPUs that can clock as high as possible and can overclock, like Devil's canyon i7-4790K. Those are faster in single threaded ops than Xeons.

I totally agree. The i3 that was used is an old (Ivy-Bridge architecture; now we have Haswell and Haswell refresh with DDR4) and mobile version, limited by a maximum of 1,8Ghz clock (and single channel slower DDR3 memory).

Currently a Pentium (dual core, dual thread; not i3!) will offer MUCH better performance, at a very low price. One like this: http://ark.intel.com/products/83428

In the future, when / if the FPU will be JITed, an i3 will make more sense, but only due to the AVX instruction set (which is not present / enabled in the Pentium family). One like this: http://ark.intel.com/products/77495

See the prices for both: I think they speak for themselves.

There's absolutely no need for a Xeon processor, which is way too much expensive, giving less benefits (and having most of the cores not used, in idle). I think that only the larger L3 cache will give a benefit, but not worth the higher price to pay.

Of course, frequency matters (is the fundamental thing here; and higher IPC, obviously), so the higher is the better are the results.

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Metalheart

Quote:
I'm not sure, but cant you use a lot more RAM (chip and fast) in emulation then on real classic hardware ?


Yes and no. WinUAE supports only up to 128 MB accellerator RAM -

256MB with the Blizzard?
Quote:
that can be used by both OS4 and OS3 as Fast RAM. WinUAE also supports Z3 RAM - OS3 uses it as Fast RAM, OS4 as SWAP.

Right, but maybe the emulated PowerPC boards can be "expanded" by WinUAE, going over the 128 and 256MB.

As an emulator, WinUAE can be changed to support more RAM: I think up to 1GB for the PowerPC board. And if it's a firmware problem that limits the amount of RAM, I think that it can patched to support more.

The problem is: will Toni support this? He MIGHT change WinUAE (like he did in the past, greatly expanding / improving the emulated hardware capabilities), but from what I saw he doesn't like to work with PowerPCs, so if a firmware correction has to be made most probably another guy has to take care of it.

Anyway, I have to point out the we are talking about a BETA, and it's the second attempt (first with PearPC core, now with the QEMU's one) in A FEW WEEKS to bring the PowerPC emulation to reality.

So, there's MUCH room for improvements, and time to do it. But many people seems to "forget" it. Who knows why...

P.S. I'm not talking about you two, guys.

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Leo 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 7:56:06
#287 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Toni said he tried selecting more RAM than 128mb but then OS4 immediately crashed. Patching the firmware is one thing. Parching the OS is another matter..

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 9:45:46
#288 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@cdimauro
Ah thanks so i will replace the g2030 CPU in the lowend ares 3000D
Thank you for the hind

Or is the g2030 ok already?
http://www.ares-shop.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=43

It is faster than my core2duo 2.53 GHz and costs only a fraction of what i paid for the core2duo when it was new.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 20-Sep-2014 at 09:52 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 20-Sep-2014 at 09:51 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 20-Sep-2014 at 09:49 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 9:48:55
#289 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@Leo

Quote:
Toni said he tried selecting more RAM than 128mb but then OS4 immediately crashed


He tried to increase accellerator RAM. However, OS4 could support Z3 as RAM - that would be simple change.

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cdimauro 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 14:07:05
#290 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote:
@cdimauro
Ah thanks so i will replace the g2030 CPU in the lowend ares 3000D
Thank you for the hind

Or is the g2030 ok already?
http://www.ares-shop.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=43

It is faster than my core2duo 2.53 GHz and costs only a fraction of what i paid for the core2duo when it was new.

It depends on what do you want to achieve and the costs, of course.

The G2030 gives you around 70% more performance compared to the 1.8Ghz i3 of the video, whereas the G3460 is around 100% more performance but costs 20€ more of the G2030.

I think that the G2030 can give also a good experience with WinUAE + PowerPC emulation, so if you want to save some money you can take it also in consideration.

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Leo

Quote:
Toni said he tried selecting more RAM than 128mb but then OS4 immediately crashed


He tried to increase accellerator RAM. However, OS4 could support Z3 as RAM - that would be simple change.

Wonderful. From an emulator point-of-view there's no difference between the accelerator and the Z3 RAM: it "accesses" both at the same speed.

So, it means that up to 2GB of RAM can be used by OS4 on WinUAE.

Did anyone tried?

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 14:14:44
#291 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
So, it means that up to 2GB of RAM can be used by OS4 on WinUAE.


There are some limiations (Z3 address space) - but generaly yes.

Quote:
Did anyone tried?


OS4 uses Z3 RAM as SWAP (even in WinUAE), change to normal memory would be easy, but requires change in OS4.

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Ancalimon 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 14:42:42
#292 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 428
From: Istanbul

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
OS4 uses Z3 RAM as SWAP (even in WinUAE), change to normal memory would be easy, but requires change in OS4.


Would it matter under emulation?

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Leo 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 15:42:01
#293 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

He tried to increase accellerator RAM. However, OS4 could support Z3 as RAM - that would be simple change

Simple: there's no such thing as "simple" when it comes to OS4/MorphOS and emulation... I mean: I don't see Hyperion releasing an updated OS4 (or even a single patched file) if it only benefits emulation. Especialy not if it benefits emulation...

Last edited by Leo on 20-Sep-2014 at 03:44 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 16:55:38
#294 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@Leo

Quote:
I mean: I don't see Hyperion releasing an updated OS4 (or even a single patched file) if it only benefits emulation. Especialy not if it benefits emulation...


Yes, quite unprobable. I still hope for miracles.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 17:48:04
#295 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11209
From: Norway

@Ancalimon

Quote:
Would it matter under emulation?


Well yes, the emulation does not change what AmigaOS4 is doing,

it might be true that Z3 RAM is slower then RAM on a PC, but even so the emulated Z3 memory is used as swap.

Anyway its better to have real memory, then depending on memory being swapped out when you run low.

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Rob 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 18:01:20
#296 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5851
From: S.Wales

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Anyway its better to have real memory, then depending on memory being swapped out when you run low.


It really depends how fast it swaps out. Since under emulation it will all be on the same bus there'll be less of a penalty.

Last edited by Rob on 20-Sep-2014 at 06:02 PM.

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Ancalimon 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 19:08:38
#297 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 428
From: Istanbul

How much faster is typical 1600Mhz ddr3 ram compared to 60ns ram on CyberstormPPC ?

I was also wondering if mainboard ram was usable under OS4.1. I might try the 64mb mod on my A4000T

Last edited by Ancalimon on 20-Sep-2014 at 07:10 PM.
Last edited by Ancalimon on 20-Sep-2014 at 07:08 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 20-Sep-2014 21:13:13
#298 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@Ancalimon

Quote:
How much faster is typical 1600Mhz ddr3 ram compared to 60ns ram on CyberstormPPC ?


Muuuuuuuch faster.

Quote:
I was also wondering if mainboard ram was usable under OS4.1.


No. Not useable (Fast RAM). Only 2 MB Chip RAM are availalable.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 16:31:17
#299 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
@pavlor run a timedemo with quake in 640x480 in software mode there are many porting for wos and ppc.library i can say the result compared with sam 440,460 ,xe,pegasos2 and some cybererstorm ppc


Now, Quake ports work with WinUAE 2.9.0 beta 17. Tried only 320x200...

timedemo demo1
QuakeWOS: 28.6 FPS

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DC_Edge 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Sep-2014 17:18:05
#300 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 183
From: France

@Leo

Quote:
. I mean: I don't see Hyperion releasing an updated OS4 (or even a single patched file) if it only benefits emulation. Especialy not if it benefits emulation...


My opinion is that due to the fact that worlwide stock of AmigaOS4.1 classic is about to be sold in less than a month, it is still possible.

Anyway, maybe they won't just to be kin with Acube for example.

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