@Hillbillylitre

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AmigaOS making PPC mainstream

It doesn't matter. Hardware is irrelevant - the PPC is an afterthought.

We're living in an age where multiplatform support is the norm. Tightly-coupling the OS with anything is a bad thing.

@agami

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The other thing is: when it comes to plans vs. execution, the vast majority of them fall short of the mark. So the idea is to aim high, and when you execute less than the target you are still in a pretty good spot. If we aimed for the low branch you seem to favour, the shortfall would be something mournful.

Or, on the other hand, you could just come up with a reasonable plan in the first place and execute it. Otherwise you have something like this:

"Here we have an unrealistic plan, which we will probably fail to execute. So let's make an even more unrealistic plan, so that when we fail to execute it we still end up somewhere around the original unrealistic plan".

...that doesn't sound like it would happen to me!

Last edited by BrianHoskins on 13-May-2015 at 04:48 AM.

@cdimauro

Nevertheless, I enjoy using my X1000 much more than my I7 vaio laptop. The X1000 can't do everything the Vaio can, but in normal everyday use its more responsive & just more enjoyable to use. Microsoft Office, Lightroom & Photoshop, & playing HD video are about the only things that I do that the Vaio can do better. So for me at least the X1000 with AOS 4.1 FE has been a worthwhile purchase & the one I use daily. I also have an A4000 with an 68060. OS4.1 on the X1000 at least is much more responsive, stable, advanced & enjoyable to use than OS3.x

Last edited by BCP on 13-May-2015 at 05:25 AM.

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- BCP
AmigaOne X1000 & Amiga 4000

Amiga Response Crew Users Group
Indianapolis, IN USA

@BCP: I don't have OS4, so I cannot judge, but I think that stuff like "responsiveness" is hardly noticeable with nowadays hardware.

I've an i7 4790K and Intel 730 SSD: Windows 8.1 x64 boots in 3 seconds, and if click on the IE, Opera, Total Commander, Sublime Text 3, ecc. they opens really fast, going from "instantly" to a maximum of a couple of seconds (Chrome portable). The application which takes longer is Visual Studio 2013 Community Edition: 3 seconds; and it's a HUGE (monster!) software. Other operations (moving windows, resizing, clean desktop, etc.) are almost immediate.

WinUAE in RTG + JIT + 1,8GB of memory with the Amiga o.s. 3.0 runs like a devil. And AROS hosted (on Windows) and Icaros (native) too, except for some software like Odyssey which takes much longer than any other Windows application (sorry, I don't remember now how much).

So, from a user point-of-view it's quite difficult to notice the "lightness" of an Amiga or post-Amiga o.s.. On the contrary, it's really easy to notice the very old difects: Software Alert windows and even lock-up/reset.

That's why for me any Amiga related stuff is just hobby. Fun.

@cdimauro

Out of curiosity: How much would your i7 system cost today?

(I always failed to buy intel system, because their high price. I've ended up with slow AMD HW with slow linux.)

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@cdimauro

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cdimauro wrote: That's why for me any Amiga related stuff is just hobby. Fun.

Yep, enjoy it for what it is. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even enjoying OS4 for what it is can fit into that sentiment quite nicely. I think it is a huge achievement for the community that now, in 2015, we have a developing platform. It is to be celebrated and long may it continue. I will try to support it for as long as it does.

But talk of AmigaOS world domination? Well it would be great to see AmigaOS get what she deserved but it sounds more plausible that someone invents a machine for transporting between parallel universes. In which case maybe we can find a way to satisfy our wish somewhere in the infinity.

Last edited by BrianHoskins on 13-May-2015 at 08:59 AM.
Last edited by BrianHoskins on 13-May-2015 at 08:39 AM.

@cdimauro

Quote:

@BCP: I don't have OS4, so I cannot judge, but I think that stuff like "responsiveness" is hardly noticeable with nowadays hardware.

My SAM has a better responsiveness than an Intel Dual Core / Window$.

I would say instead that nowadays hardware often hides poor software design and programming, not the OS4 case.

Last edited by Massi on 13-May-2015 at 09:39 AM.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Hillbillylitre

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I reckon this is an Amiga computer forum dedicated the old Amiga operating system and it's Hardware

Wrong, Amiga.org is more classic, this forum was mostly for os4 support, no morphos or aros.

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Besides 1. I think to be open to both positive and negave criticism and views is a positive thing that can be learned from.

That is true, but all your posts are negative, anti-NG/os4, & not even objective, whch proves you have an agenda here. A member for a month & 5 ARs already, your track record speaks for itself.

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Besides 2. In my opinion the sub forums in "PowerPC/NextGen Amigas" is largely off tophic from the main topic and therefore should be moved down together under "Alt Amiga OS".

Wrong again, there was a time this forum was mostly os4 support, morphos & aros users had their own forums. It was later that AW opened the door to them.

Call us NG/os4 users fanatics, but we have been fighting ever since to keep what was once a great os4 forum to trolls.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Yup, it proves that there are a lot of people who don't like their positions challenged

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This is just like television, only you can see much further.

http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-a-z/D/depression/

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http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

@cdimauro

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Windows 8.1 x64 boots in 3 seconds

Just for my curiosity, is the desktop really operative and responsive?

Window$ used to cheat a lot especially on booting, showing a not usable desktop and then continuing loading for some more time ...

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

its been a while but im not sure that when i registered at this site i was aware that it was exclusively dedicated to os4. there is nothing there to this day that suggests it. neither there is any hint that a.org is more dedicated to what is labelled as "classics" by some users here. you may know it from personal experience, but it isnt clear to someone not involved. in my opinion, those who want to distance themselves from genuine amiga and other offshots may visibly mark their forums as such, and this will avoid alienations and conflict. morphzone and aros-exec prove that it is possible. even amigans.net, even though they pass on letting you clearly know, genuine amiga users are not actually welcome there.

@wawa

amigaworld was the official support forum for Eyetech at one point, I was personally answering hundreds of linux questions a week here back in 2002

Once OS4 came out, support for that was also done here until brothers Frieden retreated from all the trolling. It simply is not cost effective to use an open forum like this for developer level support

Edit: I see it says I joined in 2003, I find that hard to believe. But maybe we were coping with just my mailing list up until then. Could be.

Last edited by olegil on 13-May-2015 at 02:56 PM.

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Quote:

Window$ used to cheat a lot especially on booting, showing a not usable desktop and then continuing loading for some more time ...

Same happens with O$4 when lots of apps/commodities are put in WBStartup...

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Well, if we must be on topic, and since the title of this topic is "How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system", I'll throw my two cents in.

The simple answer is you don't. Period. Not with open source. Not with ten or a hundred high-speed low drag developers who know every trick in the book and dream in assembler. Not with a 4Ghz FPGA soft core board for every miggy.

Hey, its fun to dream, and its fun to drop lots of money on a hobby you enjoy. But we live in capitalistic societies that favor low cost, high volume, high quality systems. You will never beat microsoft for reliability (yes, reliability: unless you're thierry atheist), availability of good software, power of supported platforms, and price. Ever in your wildest dreams. Linux still hasn't done it, and its so far ahead of AOSx.x that it isn't even slightly funny. All the niche markets? Linux is there. Embedded? Yeah, you'll never unseat it. Server? Good luck. Hobby? Still eating your lunch. What about Apple? Unix. Which brings us to mobile - the fastest growing segment. Dominated by Android (linux derived) and iOs. What does AOS bring to the table? Absolutely nothing.

The valid point brought up by hillbillylitre is that Aos4 in particular (and you can lump morphos and aros in there too, it doesn't really matter) brings nothing. It doesn't run on real (CBM) amigas anymore (well, aros does...), it has no gravitas, or fond childhood remembrances. Its just a sad echo of a time when it didn't matter how many colors your workbench was - you did WORK on it. You didn't care about desktop window effects, or needing a 3d engine to run your OS. Aos was about maximum power with minimum BS. AOS 4 (and 3.1+ with mui, magicwb and other eyecandy crap) is not about that. It may have been a great dream in 2000, or 2002 whatever. Now? Its 15 years later, nothing to show for it but expensive hardware, users with thin skins and no objectivity, and crappy forum feuds. It sucks up peoples time, it steals mindshare, it makes people say "But look - I can transfer files so much faster now!" Fine, fine. You're right -- "Its mah hobbi! I kin does what I wants!!! neener! You're just a poor troglodyte troll who can no affordz the awesomes!". I don't need to. Enjoy what you have - enjoy whatever buttons it pushes.

Just don't whine and moan when you start an opinion based forum topic and people rain on your parade with, you know, opinions, man.

@Leo

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Same happens with AmigaOS4 when lots of apps/commodities are put in WBStartup...

Not really, WB startup is done in seconds, it's the least part of a typical boot time. Whereas a typical windows startup can grind away for ages, even on more modern machines, that can ofcourse be optimised, many users don't know how to or that they can however.

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@wawa

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genuine amiga users

If ppl bothered to look at the 'forums' link, they would see a section for each system, but ignored. Go post your "genuine amiga" questions there insead of in the os4 forum.

Most NG users also have classics, I have a working A500/030 in storage & a working A4000T/060 that I still use & 2 NGs, different models, but all are "real" Amigas to me.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@BSzili

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Yup, it proves that there are a lot of people who don't like their positions challenged

You haven't been here long enough to know the background of this forum to know where some of us come from, best to deal with your own short comings & leave others alone with theirs.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

I know, you didn't start the fire. Not being part of any of the camps I can observe all the dung flinging from a safe distance, and see it for what it is.

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This is just like television, only you can see much further.

@Thread

AmigaOS is a fun distraction with some fun productive software and games. To be honest Hyperion, A-EON, ACube and AmigaKit have their hands full growing any sizeable user base for AmigaOS 4.x. I'm not saying mainstream is even in their targets right now, just sustainability and marginal profits which they are likely to reinvest in the platform.

In the 30th year of the Amiga people here should cheer up and celebrate a great computer!

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios