Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5824 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
84 crawler(s) on-line.
 18 guest(s) on-line.
 3 member(s) on-line.


 RobertB,  Yssing,  PhantomInterrogative

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 RobertB:  0 secs ago
 Yssing:  2 mins ago
 PhantomInterrogative:  3 mins ago
 jaokim:  10 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  10 mins ago
 Rob:  14 mins ago
 evilFrog:  17 mins ago
 MichaelMerkel:  21 mins ago
 g0blin:  26 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  30 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 Next Page )
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:15:16
#641 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

@iggy

I had contact to several of those sort... one said AmigaOS was a huge success compared to Aros and MorphOS. Not uncommon. It makes no sense to discuss because it is religion.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:25:20
#642 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Quote:
I had contact to several of those sort...


Yeah, I've never gotten that sentiment from AROS developers.
But then, they have been working at this whole NG thing for longer than anyone else.

And what IS 'real Amiga OS'?
I honestly think it might be OS3.1, since everything after is third party.

Hard to believe that so many options would create such divisiveness, but you're right, there is a religious aspect to it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
broadblues 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:47:14
#643 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4411
From: Portsmouth England

@OlafS25

Quote:

Example is the senseless "custom chips" integrated in X1000, no drivers and no developers support. Parts of the hardware are not supported by drivers, to me it seems the hardware developers build something and A-eon and Hyperion tries to support it somehow instead of designing something that fits and can be supported. Normally when creating something OS and hardware devs should work together. To me a little strange.


SOCS come with specific network NICS, usb chipsets, etc. If you choose one you have to support what it provides, or increase cost by duplicating the on chip chipsets with seperate chips, which presumably use up PCI lanes (or whatever the righ word is there).

And the 'custom chips' are only senseless til someone does something cool with them and then you will all want one

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 1:08:24
#644 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Quote:
And the 'custom chips' are only senseless til someone does something cool with them and then you will all want one


while i dont believe that the explanation is as simple as olaf suggests, i doubt that blindly implementing "features" just for the sake of that someone accidentally might find some use for them, is a strategy ever succesfully employed by anyone.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
CodeSmith 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 4:19:05
#645 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@Spectre660

Quote:

Anyway A-Eon now own DvPlayer and Tunenet. Two programs that would be affected by the FPU emulation speed. So special SPE floating point versions of these should not be a problem.


There will be difficulties because the system ABI has no concept of SPEFP. But that is just another item on the todo list.


Elf's multiple section format lends itself naturally to fat binaries and Hyperion maintains the OS4 port of GCC, so this is not a real problem. DOS.library on a Tabor could look for a .text.spe section in the binary and load that in preference to .text, whereas DOS.library on say a SAM460 would just ignore the .text.spe section and load .text.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cdimauro 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 5:10:23
#646 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@jaokim

Quote:

jaokim wrote:

From that it seems evident that the cheapest e500mc comes at $71, where the P1022 e500 is at $31.

Looking at the chart, it seems that the P1022 is the only choice in the lower price segment, with GHz in par/slightly above the Sam460.
The T1040 adds only $10 to the price, but perhaps it wasn't available at the time, plus that the cost increases with $10000 for 1000 units.

Which isn't that much.
Quote:
Perhaps it was deemed cheaper to implement the FPU-fix-thingie for OS4, and start with the hardware?

Only if you want to just emulate the FPU, because the emulator is already available.

But, as it was emerged, they are improving the support, and it may well cost more than $10000.

That's without counting the cost of splitting the OS4 platform with new PowerPC SPE support & binaries (see above itix's comment about it).


@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@iggy

regarding Paul from Varisys... he has no clue about Amiga and Trevor no clue about hardware so Trevor must trust what Paul or others recommend. Example is the senseless "custom chips" integrated in X1000, no drivers and no developers support. Parts of the hardware are not supported by drivers, to me it seems the hardware developers build something and A-eon and Hyperion tries to support it somehow instead of designing something that fits and can be supported. Normally when creating something OS and hardware devs should work together. To me a little strange.

Yes, in theory. In practice we see the results of such "collaboration"...


@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote:
@OlafS25

And the 'custom chips' are only senseless til someone does something cool with them and then you will all want one

I doubt that all X1000 users are coders. And I doubt that all X1000 coders are interested on working on the XCore, because it can be used only for doing some automation.

The reality is that such chip was integrated only to recall the Amiga's custom chips, because OS4 users love to think that "my machine is a new Amiga", and having something which is called as "custom chip", with a "custom bus" (Xorro), serves perfectly to the selling purpose.

So, just marketing, because that chip isn't custom (and the "bus" is just a collector of the extra XCore lines put on a PCI-e connector) and is light years far away for offloading the CPU (and the o.s. too) from typical workloads, like it happened with the Amigas (where ALL coders used the custom chip either directly or through the o.s. APIs).


@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote:
@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@Spectre660

There will be difficulties because the system ABI has no concept of SPEFP. But that is just another item on the todo list.


Elf's multiple section format lends itself naturally to fat binaries and Hyperion maintains the OS4 port of GCC, so this is not a real problem. DOS.library on a Tabor could look for a .text.spe section in the binary and load that in preference to .text, whereas DOS.library on say a SAM460 would just ignore the .text.spe section and load .text.

That can only solve the problem of having duplicated code both for regular PowerPC and PowerPC/SPE, but doesn't solve the ABI problem which itix exposed.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Flasheart 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 7:04:36
#647 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 76
From: UK

@OnlyMe

+1

I have had several Amiga's over the years and would like to have a play again, but the entry price is too high. I would want to use my machine online too, so it would also need a working browser. I don't know what the current level of browsers is but the latest time I had a machine it wasn't good (5-6 years ago).

I would come back and buy hardware and software to use in my leisure time but it needs to stack up.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olegil 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 8:36:00
#648 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@broadblues

exactamundo. I've been advocating stripping it down to bare essentials here for a LONG time. Use what's on chip fully, rather than adding a lot of extras.

But it's not always that simple, so my current favourite solution would be T1022 + SB850. Drivers already exist for SB600, but getting those extra PCIe ports would be worth an update, I think.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
duga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 9:13:20
#649 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 189
From: Unknown

@jaokim

Quote:

jaokim wrote:
@iggy

Interesting!

Quote:
I doubt the difference between the e500v2 and the e500mc was of much significance.


In lack of better things to do (or wait, I do have better things to do...) Anyhow, I looked at FreeScale's QoriQ pages, and found this chart:
http://www.freescale.com/products/power-architecture-processors/qoriq-power-architecture-processors:QORIQ-POWER-ARCHITECTURE?cof=0&am=0

From that it seems evident that the cheapest e500mc comes at $71, where the P1022 e500 is at $31.

Looking at the chart, it seems that the P1022 is the only choice in the lower price segment, with GHz in par/slightly above the Sam460.
The T1040 adds only $10 to the price, but perhaps it wasn't available at the time, plus that the cost increases with $10000 for 1000 units. Perhaps it was deemed cheaper to implement the FPU-fix-thingie for OS4, and start with the hardware?

Anyhoe. Need more popcorn.


The price for P1022 is in the range $30.13-$57.92. As they have chosen dual core, 1200 MHz and DDR3 the price should be close to $57.92.

_________________
Aros Retrofit

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
CodeSmith 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 9:51:44
#650 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

That can only solve the problem of having duplicated code both for regular PowerPC and PowerPC/SPE, but doesn't solve the ABI problem which itix exposed.


Sure it does. An ABI is just a convention - these parameters are passed in registers, that register holds the stack frame, this is what C++ vtables look like. There's no reason why one text segment could not have a different ABI to another one, as long as you don't mix and match. And even if you do, since SPE opcodes are emulated, the only penalty is that the code will run slower.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
itix 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 10:01:03
#651 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@CodeSmith

The problem is SPEFP is still not compatible with the system ABI (calls you make to exec.librray etc). When passing floats (like to snprintf() kind of vararg calls) you have to deal with SPEFP/FPU mappings.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olegil 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 10:18:42
#652 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@duga

You forgot to finish your train of thought. T1022 at 1200MHz is $15 CHEAPER than P1022 at 1200MHz, so this would have REDUCED the cost of that production run by $15000. Hence the ONLY logical explanation can be "we cannot justify delaying this any longer".

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
duga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 10:50:06
#653 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 189
From: Unknown

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote:
@duga

You forgot to finish your train of thought. T1022 at 1200MHz is $15 CHEAPER than P1022 at 1200MHz, so this would have REDUCED the cost of that production run by $15000. Hence the ONLY logical explanation can be "we cannot justify delaying this any longer".


Except the fact that T1022 isn't included in the list Jaokim linked to.

_________________
Aros Retrofit

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 11:08:06
#654 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/10/idUS93602+10-Oct-2012+BW20121010

Quote:

Freescale plans to offer samples of the T1040 device in the third quarter of 2013, with other T1 and T2 devices following soon after. World-class RTOS and/or development tools support is planned from Enea, Green Hills Software, Mentor Graphics, Wind River and others. Freescale intends to offer development tools, including a Linux® BSP, a reference design board, a multiservice router reference design, security appliance reference design, CodeWarrior debug tools, configuration tools, models and more. For more information, visit freescale.com/QorIQ.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olegil 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 12:15:43
#655 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@duga

Yes it is. It's a variant of T1042, listed with minimum price $43@1k. Third entry from the bottom. If you limit the view to only two cores and speed to 1200MHz and expand both T1042 and P1022 you'll see them. And here I made a mistake, it's $10 cheaper, not $15.

P1022NSN2MHB vs T1022NSE7MQB

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olegil 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 12:16:45
#656 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@Spectre660

Any chance of a context as to why we're reading a quote from 2012?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
duga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 12:28:52
#657 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 189
From: Unknown

@olegil

Found it, thanks.

_________________
Aros Retrofit

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 12:35:07
#658 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

@olegil

Trying to establish when the T1022 would have been available from .

Quote:

olegil wrote:
@Spectre660

Any chance of a context as to why we're reading a quote from 2012?

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Deniil715 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 12:54:42
#659 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4193
From: Sweden

@Flasheart

Quote:
I have had several Amiga's over the years and would like to have a play again, but the entry price is too high. I would want to use my machine online too, so it would also need a working browser. I don't know what the current level of browsers is but the latest time I had a machine it wasn't good (5-6 years ago).


The current browser (Odyssey) is good. Works with facebook, google maps, youtube, paypal, pretty much all online stores I've come a cross, online banking (if it doesn't use stinking java applets).

Few limitations, especially since Flash is on its way out from the web in favor of HTML5 Very few places use java, typically a few banks.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 14:43:25
#660 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Soc integration helps eliminate the additional chips and added board complexity that results when features are implemented discreetly.

Its given us things like built-in NICs, USB, Serial and Parallel ports, etc.

The features aren't added 'blindly', but rather are chosen as being those most commonly needed.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle