@KimmoK

The Tabor was introduced during Trevor's Amiwest 2015 Presentation.
He mentioned that the price point could be low enough to be selling at a loss to increase the demand for AmigaOS software on the AMIstore .

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: Still no official info release about Tabor A1222 anywhere? If 1000 units are really being produced, that clearly indicate that no-one is doing T10xx based "Amiga" system yet. Anyway. Below EUR1000 system to replace my SAM440 is interesting vs the EUR2000 alternative. Just need to see how it works with FPU using SW.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

He mentioned that the price point could be low enough to be selling at a loss to increase the demand for AmigaOS software on the AMIstore .

selling at a loss? so the considerably lower proce than 1000-700 that has been mentioned is resulting in intention to be offering that system at a loss? especially since it remains to be seen if a system of a sam performance class is going to attract winuae users. instead i rather expect the fans to round up their collections, but will this improve the demand? except the different versions of binaries would become necessary to be acquired for different systems..

@Spectre660

selling at a loss to increase demand for AmigaOS software?

it is too weak hardware to attract non-amiga related people, every 5 years old PC runs circles around it. And for most users that are not owning NG already it is not interesting, those prefer addons for their old amigas. I do not think that it will add many real new users.

If they really want to have more users than support "classic" version on UAE and remove limitations

Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-Oct-2015 at 12:51 PM.

@wawa

The price that was mentioned was an estimate from the person demoing the Tabor board which
turns out not to be correct.
Maybe special binaries for video,audio,rendering and multimedia.
These areas already have different Altivec stuff in some cases .
Most other programs should be ok with the regular binaries .

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Spectre660 Quote: He mentioned that the price point could be low enough to be selling at a loss to increase the demand for AmigaOS software on the AMIstore . selling at a loss? so the considerably lower proce than 1000-700 that has been mentioned is resulting in intention to be offering that system at a loss? especially since it remains to be seen if a system of a sam performance class is going to attract winuae users. instead i rather expect the fans to round up their collections, but will this improve the demand? except the different versions of binaries would become necessary to be acquired for different systems..

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@OlafS25

Anticipated revenue is from the software sales.
Non-Amiga people are not really interested in Amiga stuff .

By the way Aros-ppc hosted run on Tabor under Debian 8 SPE. Speed seems quite decent .
There is a guru on program exit from one particular library though .


Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Spectre660 selling at a loss to increase demand for AmigaOS software? it is too weak hardware to attract non-amiga related people, every 5 years old PC runs circles around it. And for most users that are not owning NG already it is not interesting, those prefer addons for their old amigas. I do not think that it will add many real new users.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

nice to hear even though PPC is not really supported

main platforms are X86 and 68k now and in future ARM and X64 I assume

you mean they want to earn money with software sales and their shop and hardware sell for zero profit or loss?

@OlafS25

Probably only the low end hardware.
The Amistore has about 700 users.

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Spectre660 nice to hear even though PPC is not really supported main platforms are X86 and 68k now and in future ARM and X64 I assume you mean they want to earn money with software sales and their shop and hardware sell for zero profit or loss?

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

The price that was mentioned was an estimate from the person demoing the Tabor board which

yes it looks like it wasnt correct, but the question is if that board is attractive lets say at the half of it?

now, what concerns selling the hardware at a loss you need to sell software at a greater margin to come out even. im not sure if this is a good method to build up self sustaining commercial environment. this strategy rather looks like draining funds both from investors and the consumers for no particular return, especially to the community as a whole. i mean the so called "gaining momentum".

especially that there is 700 individuals registered, which corresponds well to the number of registered users at hyperion support forum (i dont know if uae users have registered yet, probably those more motivated did, just in hope to receive updates). you cant expect each and every user to buy everything, do you? which leaves you with much lower expected target audience for particular application.

This is entirely IMHO...

but wouldn't it make more sense to do a cheap AMCC440 or 460 based board as an entry HW for OS4 that could be sold at a (slight) loss... this would make more sense to me since it doesn't introduce a new FPU and related fat binaries and emulation that needs to be done in SW(and we all know just how slow OS4 development is already).

Or, shock, just sell an cheap "OS4 Amithlon" x64 machine based on uae...

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@WolfToTheMoon

that is why i wrote remove limitations at "classic" version

@WolfToTheMoon

Does not allow a future dual core option on the same hardware .

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: This is entirely IMHO... but wouldn't it make more sense to do a cheap AMCC440 or 460 based board as an entry HW for OS4 that could be sold at a (slight) loss... this would make more sense to me since it doesn't introduce a new FPU and related fat binaries and emulation that needs to be done in SW(and we all know just how slow OS4 development is already). Or, shock, just sell an cheap "OS4 Amithlon" x64 machine based on uae...

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@OlafS25

Still valid as part of a multi prong strategy .

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @WolfToTheMoon that is why i wrote remove limitations at "classic" version

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

@WolfToTheMoon Does not allow a future dual core option on the same hardware .

So what... a cheap OS4 HW is needed, not a powerstation. And when do you think OS4 will support SMP... Here is my optimistic opinion.... NEVER!

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@WolfToTheMoon

that is the optimistic?

what is then the pessimistic?

It depends how you define SMP

@OlafS25

whichever way you define multicore, I seriously doubt OS4 will support any of those models in the next 5 years. Come on... let's be realistic, look at the speed of OS4 development.

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@OlafS25

Powerpc floating point emulation under Winuae is currently very slow too.

Winuae 0.3642x with AKsaw.wav

Sam440ep is 3.6575x (1:15s)
Tabor SPE is 4.0484x (1:09s) (Linux)
Sam460ex is 5.8033x (0.47s)

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @WolfToTheMoon that is why i wrote remove limitations at "classic" version

Last edited by Spectre660 on 22-Oct-2015 at 02:51 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

there is a lot of activity there now with 64bit versions including JIT and it seems also amigaforever is becoming active in that area. So we will see what next months will bring.

@OlafS25

PowerPC emulation is based on QEMU CPU core, which emulates FPU only via softfloats. I don´t think WinUAE/FS-UAE maintainers can change much about that.

@Spectre660

Thanks for Tabor result with lame!

460EX 800 MHz class FPU performance (with native binary) is better than I expected.

@pavlor

How well does QEMU emulate an e500v2 SPE ?

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @OlafS25 PowerPC emulation is based on QEMU CPU core, which emulates FPU only via softfloats. I don´t think WinUAE/FS-UAE maintainers can change much about that.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card