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      /  New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
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Tuxedo 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 7-Nov-2015 20:45:20
#881 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2324
From: Perugia, ITALY

@iggy

I really hope that Tabor will costs really not much to support all that too expensive cpu thesis
Also to support all that problems related to non standard FPU...

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 3:10:15
#882 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Tuxedo

Tabor's cost is all up to A-eon's BOM, their sunk costs in design, and the margin they need.
It could be fairly low, but its not going to be on par with a cheap X86 system.

It can't be because of the economies of scale.

And if software authors work around the fpu issue, then OS support becomes secondary.

I didn't intend to make this all seem like gloom and doom.

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asymetrix 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 5:11:21
#883 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 857
From: United Kingdom

@Thread

Tabor seams to have a little bit of punch :)

If Tabor is sold for 300 EURO came with decent GFX card, HD, 8GB mem -then maybe ..

To SUCCEED Tabor needs alot of software.

3 or 4 new Release games on Tabor
BlitzBasic port (for Basic game Programming - not Hollywood sorry) as standard
C programming suite with SDL
Assembler Suite
Office suite
Music Edit record Suite with tracks, mods etc
Midi composing
Video Tutorials how to use AmigaOS for beginners

Webcam Software with draw tools
Kids love karaoke
cute backgrounds / themes
New OS features - 'WOW factors'

Amiga 3D game FRAG events, with leader-boards online

If only it looks stylish, like white Macs that looks cool in any room ...

Give it a chance, lets see what we get ...

When people see what this system can do - that is FUN or is an educational tool it would sell like hot cakes !

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cdimauro 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 6:36:41
#884 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
That's impossible for G4 and PA6T, since SPE instructions use space from the Altivec opcode space (and some from the "string" instructions; here even G3s might be affected).


Can be done with JIT, as that sort interpreter with a compiler stage. However, I don't won't give people fall hope, it’s a lot of work.

Yes, but it kills the "integer" performance too...


@Tuxedo

Quote:

Tuxedo wrote:
@Spectre660

well..on integer that board seems REALLY faster than Sam460ex...nice!

It was expected. The SAMs had an old PowerPC.


@Tuxedo

Quote:

Tuxedo wrote:
@cdimauro

http://amiga.ikirsector.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18792&start=30

latest page post

Thanks. It seems that E-UAE is also compiled for SPE, albeit I doubt that the JIT is able to directly generate SPE instructions instead of the regular PowerPC/FPU ones.

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 9:45:18
#885 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

Blitzbasic is written in asm, you cannot port it to PPC

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 10:41:45
#886 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11417
From: Norway

@OlafS25

I do not know how legal it is but there is AmiBlitz3, but as they abandoned Amiga, I don't see the big problem, BlitzBasic2 lives on, yes it 680x0 assembler.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amiblitz.de%2F&sandbox=1

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tlosm 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 11:12:55
#887 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2702
From: Amiga land

@cdimauro

No spe just regular powerpc instruction. I dont think the gcc optimize it for spe during building

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 11:16:12
#888 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11417
From: Norway

@asymetrix

Quote:
BlitzBasic port (for Basic game Programming - not Hollywood sorry) as standard


For game programing I think we need something else. Writing a game from ground up, takes a lot time, if you're only few people working on project, it might better to spend less of that time coding, and more of that time working on ideas, and graphics.

Most games this days are made in some kind of game maker, or game engine, people are spending less and less time in making games from ground up.

Something like Backbone for 680x0 might nice start.

Quote:
C programming suite with SDL


We have SDL1.2, work is ongoing to make it faster.
SDL2.x at moment is as high priority.

Allegro4 we have.
Allegro5 is under development.

Quote:
Assembler Suite


GCC comes with AS, a program to compile assembler.

Quote:
Office suite


We have Google Docs, and abiword, and we have spreadsheets.
and I know Terminals is working on updating a old office suite.

Quote:
Music Edit record Suite with tracks, mods etc


We have bars and pipes, OctaMedStudio coming soon, ProTracker, HivelyTracker.
Quote:
Midi composing


We have good Midi support.
Quote:
Video Tutorials how to use AmigaOS for beginners


We have some nice blogs. And there is the AmigaOS wiki pages.
Quote:
Webcam Software with draw tools


We have no webcam support, last time I checked.

Quote:
Kids love karaoke


We don't have that, can be done, we can record audio using AHI.

Quote:
cute backgrounds / themes


Just install Candy. Nice background you find everywhere, Amigaworld has download aria.
Quote:
New OS features - 'WOW factors'


we need to focus on getting features you expect in modern operating system into AmigaOS, like full UTF8 support, SMP and memory protection, better TCP/IP stack whit IPv6 support, then after that we talk about taking over the world after that.

Quote:
Amiga 3D game FRAG events, with leader-boards online


I'm getting too old for that, but you play whit other kids on other platforms.

Quote:
If only it looks stylish, like white Macs that looks cool in any room ...


I think most Amiga users are happy if looks like it did back in 1990

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Nov-2015 at 11:20 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Nov-2015 at 11:18 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 11:25:30
#889 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@cdimauro

No spe just regular powerpc instruction.

Unfortunately there's little information in the screenshot, but I've seen an "E-UAE_JIT_1.0.1_powerpcspe" icon on the desktop, so I thought that this binary was compiled with SPE support.
Quote:
I dont think the gcc optimize it for spe during building

GCC optimizes for the SPE unit, and of course it does when the project is built. But you have to specify proper options for it.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 11:27:17
#890 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11417
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
so I thought that this binary was compiled with SPE support.


What does that help when, the JIT compiler generates, normal (integer) PowerPC machine code.

Quote:
GCC optimizes for the SPE unit, and of course it does when the project is built. But you have to specify proper options for it.


It depends on version of GCC, how well it optimize for special features, you can't have too old GCC. I most cases when I tell GCC to unroll loops, it not able to, you need to help GCC.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Nov-2015 at 11:32 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Nov-2015 at 11:31 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 11:40:27
#891 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
so I thought that this binary was compiled with SPE support.


What does that help when, the JIT compiler generates, normal (integer) PowerPC machine code.

UAE itself uses floats, so the SPE unit can be directly used in this case, avoiding the unnecessary trap & emulate operation for FPU instructions.

It means that, since E-UAE doesn't seem to JIT 68K FPU instructions, the SPE unit is used for the 68K FPU emulation.

So, this is the best condition for running E-UAE, and for comparing the performance of Tabor with other boards running the same application, since there's no penalty for regular FPU emulation.
Quote:
Quote:
GCC optimizes for the SPE unit, and of course it does when the project is built. But you have to specify proper options for it.


It depends on version of GCC, how well it optimize for special features, you can't have too old GCC.

Sure.
Quote:
I most cases when I tell GCC to unroll loops, it not able to, you need to help GCC.

That's only for "SIMD-like" code. However that's not the case for apps like E-UAE, where normal scalar FP code is executed, when needed.

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tlosm 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 13:55:43
#892 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2702
From: Amiga land

Just for compare

this is the G5 2.5 ghz euae jit




this is win uee on virtualpc on g5 quad

Last edited by tlosm on 08-Nov-2015 at 01:57 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 08-Nov-2015 at 01:56 PM.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 14:01:11
#893 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

Qupzilla V8 Benchmarks Tabor and Sam460ex .

V8 Benchmark Suite - version 7

========================================
Sam460ex AmigaOS 4.1 FE

Odyssey 1.23

Score: 29.3
Richards: 10.6
DeltaBlue: 7.18
Crypto: 51.9
RayTrace: 32.1
EarleyBoyer: 75.1
RegExp: 11.3
Splay: 60.8
NavierStokes: 84.3
=========================================
Sam460ex Ubuntu Mate 16.04 -

Qupzilla 1.8.6

Score: 91.3
Richards: 61.8
DeltaBlue: 34.8
Crypto: 108
RayTrace: 92.9
EarleyBoyer: 192
RegExp: 31.3
Splay: 246
NavierStokes: 151
========================================
Tabor Debian 9 PowerPC32 non-smp kernel

Qupzilla 1.8.6

Score: 47.3
Richards: 47.7
DeltaBlue: 35.2
Crypto: 56.7
RayTrace: 22.6
EarleyBoyer: 241
RegExp: 42.0
Splay: 123
NavierStokes: 9.25
===============================================
Tabor Debian 9 PowerPC32 smp kernel

Qupzilla 1.8.6

Score: 69.6
Richards: 88.3
DeltaBlue: 74.4
Crypto: 117
RayTrace: 46.3
EarleyBoyer: 336
RegExp: 43.0
Splay: 115
NavierStokes: 9.29
=============================================
Tabor Debian 8 PowerPCSPE chroot non-smp kernel

Qupzilla 1.8.6

Score: 139
Richards: 97.0
DeltaBlue: 75.0
Crypto: 133
RayTrace: 163
EarleyBoyer: 339
RegExp: 41.4
Splay: 374
NavierStokes: 165
===============================================
Tabor Debian 8 PowerPCSPE chroot smp kernel

Qupzilla 1.8.6

Score: 158
Richards: 105
DeltaBlue: 90.7
Crypto: 143
RayTrace: 179
EarleyBoyer: 391
RegExp: 48.6
Splay: 422
NavierStokes: 198
===============================================

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 14:10:13
#894 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11417
From: Norway

@Spectre660

what is "chroot"?

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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 14:16:03
#895 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

A chroot is an operation that changes the apparent root directory for the current running process and its children.From the Chroot environement you can run the powerPCSPE programs as if you had booted the powerpcSPE version of Linux .

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Spectre660

what is "chroot"?

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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 14:28:25
#896 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

Anyone want to add V8 Bencharks for Odyssey AmigaOS 4.1 FE and MorphOS ?

https://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v7/run.html

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TRIPOS 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 15:43:47
#897 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1043
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
You got any source that this motherboard will be called "AmigaOne"? What's with that "Tabor" thing then?)


Watch Trevor´s presentation from AmiWest. Tabor (motherboard) is named "AmigaOne A1222" on one of the slides.

19:05


"A-EON Technology Ltd is pleased to announce that Tabor, a new powerful, low cost, entry level PowerPC motherboard", "The full system is designated the AmigaOne A1222."

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7559

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 15:46:14
#898 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Spectre660

Qupzilla, huh?
A QT/Chromium based web browser?

OK, that one I like.
Even if it isn't as portable as Webkit.

It works well and it is fast.

I'm going to switch to it for awhile.

Edit - Back to Chrome and Firefox.
That version has issues with Youtube, even after updating Flash.

Last edited by iggy on 08-Nov-2015 at 03:58 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 15:52:34
#899 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

but the "One" is very very small, 1 pixel high

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 15:59:03
#900 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Quote:
1 pixel high


Now that IS funny!
A straight line, eh?

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