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      /  New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 23:02:25
#941 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@CodeSmith

Quote:
think a fair comparison would be tabor vs raspberry pi 2


Not really, rpis have a less than stellar processors coupled with a built-in hardware decoder.
Not fair,

Last edited by iggy on 08-Nov-2015 at 11:46 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 23:19:57
#942 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 894
From: Unknown

@Yasu

Quote:

Yasu wrote:
I also have a hard time seeing how the X1000 "killed of the Amiga". It's not like the Amiga market would be in a better state now without it.


By choosing to go in one direction, you also choose not to go in some other direction.

They chose ocerpriced and buggy Terons instead of Pegasos.
They chose underspecced and overpriced Sam's and later X1000 instead of supporting already available mainstream PPC H/W from Apple.
They chose X5000 and Tabor instead of migrating to a real, alive and relevant ISA.

All choices they made, had consequences for peoples perception of the platform and for chances of a potential growth. The X1000 was particulary insane IMHO, not only did they choose a CPU that they knew beforehand was dead, ridiculously expensive and had no future whatsoever, no they also sold systems at €3,000+ a piece! Few isolated things in the entire history of Amiga has probably driven so many people away! "If this is the future then there is no point, no future community or platform can be built from that"

MorphOS made exactly the opposite choices BTW, which turned out really good for them!



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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 23:26:56
#943 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5222
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

for them buying new hardware with "Amiga" on it is priceless... MorphOS also is years away from transition but at least they made the right decision

I personal do not understand it, nobody would buy devices with slightly more than 1 Ghz today or 2016 or 2017. But I do not need to understand everything

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 23:52:38
#944 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Quote:
@TRIPOS for them buying new hardware with "Amiga" on it is priceless... MorphOS also is years away from transition but at least they made the right decision I personal do not understand it, nobody would buy devices with slightly more than 1 Ghz today or 2016 or 2017. But I do not need to understand everything


Hey dude, don't go out too far on a limb, we are getting ready to drink the KoolAid too (with X5000 support - and I might even buy one).

And we ARE using Amiga derived OS'.

That is both a little weird and (for me) a nice break from the cookie cutter crap everyone keeps trying to stuff down my throat.

Who said logic or economics played a serious role in our sensibilities?

I'm willing to give some money to Trevor (maybe not for Tabor...), I just don't want any of my income going to Ben Hermans.

AND... I do have the promise of an eventual ISA change.

Last edited by iggy on 08-Nov-2015 at 11:53 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 8-Nov-2015 23:55:37
#945 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5222
From: Unknown

@iggy

it plays no role of course

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asymetrix 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 0:19:44
#946 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 804
From: United Kingdom

@THREAD

This OBSESSION with speed is madness !

All one needs to know is - can we Play medium quality video/music and play some games on this system.

Thats it.

Let me explain.

If Amiga is not using x86/x64 WE will never be able to PLAY CPU intensive games matching on PC. Full stop.

The artificial Intelligence, the waypoint mappings have very heavy CPU usage in games.

No professional games company will want to DILUTE their games, just so they can get it WORKING SLOWER or lower FEATURES on someone elses slow machines. Aint gong to happen.

By that very nature we will not get BEST/ Latest games. NO CHANCE.

Amiga has a chance if they match x86/x64 hardware that some companies MAY take a chance to PORT the game to Amiga systems.

Buy in advance 3 years worth of motherboards. Chipset locked 3 years.

We as yet dont have a MARKET. 50.000 users is a market.

You dont get discounts by buying processors from websites - Newbies do that.

A leaders favourite word is 'Get it Done!' or 'Do it in half the time.'

In business developers cannot be your friend. Job needs be done. SELL SELL SELL.

Workers always slow down if not checked up on for progress DAILY.
Tasks need breaking down, once completed satisfactorily progress to next stage.

If a developer is slow or lets you down, note it down and transfer job to someone else.

Once a developer told me the job would take a week, I told them I know the work involved (and proved it ) - they ended up finishing in 48 hours.

If the cats away the mice will play.

Never tell the competition what you are doing or where you are thinking of going to do business.

For example, if tabor has low power usage, could it be turned into a small console ?

You need : Amiga XMB (Xross Media Bar)

I really like the music interface on My Samsung TV called VidZone.





Last edited by asymetrix on 09-Nov-2015 at 12:24 AM.
Last edited by asymetrix on 09-Nov-2015 at 12:21 AM.

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CodeSmith 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 0:32:44
#947 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@OlafS25

I'm referring to the Pi 2 that came out earlier this year. That one is a quad-core cortex a7 running at 900MHz with 1GB of RAM and the same GPU as the Pi 1. I think hardware wise it should be comparable to the 1222. As to price differences, well I guess one was designed to sell to school kids and the other to people used to paying for overpriced hardware.

Edit: RAM was wrong

Last edited by CodeSmith on 09-Nov-2015 at 02:32 AM.

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 1:34:28
#948 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@CodeSmith

Sorry, missed that, I haven't been paying much attention to the proliferation of relatively low power muliticore 32 bit ARM processors.
But...that should actual dust Tabor.

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 1:35:49
#949 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@asymetrix
I am not quoting ANY of that.
That made my head hurt.

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TiredofLife 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 1:48:00
#950 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1583
From: Here

@CodeSmith

The Pi 2 comes with 1 gig of ram.

Cheers

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CodeSmith 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 2:28:19
#951 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@TiredofLife

Gotcha, thanks for the correction.

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CodeSmith 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 2:34:26
#952 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@iggy

It is a very capable little board. It runs UAE quite well actually.

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tlosm 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 6:14:28
#953 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2533
From: Amiga land

@CodeSmith

my C 64 run well Uae too...
but why an amigan here have to use uae? i m sure the most of us have a real amiga 198x 199x machine ... i had not buy an x5000 for uae.

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paolone 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 8:23:31
#954 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 981
From: Unknown

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote:

I think a fair comparison would be tabor vs raspberry pi 2, ie low end hobby grade hardware that's not cranked out in millions of units. Lots of people use pi 2s for "desktop" type tasks like media center boxes.
Anyone here with a pi care to run the same tests and post the results?


Are you serious?

There's no chance to "fair comparing" two products that cost 1x and 10x respectively. Benchmarks are commercially used to let people understand what's "more powerful for the price", and when you're selling and/or evangelizing a product that you would be successfull, and limit comparisons with something else that does the same work for a 10% of the price (admitting that this Tabor will cost €300 and no more, which will unlikely happen IMHO), then you've lost from the beginning.

The phone in my pocket scores above 4000. I wonder for how much time, you people, will go on hurting yourselves.

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 9:15:13
#955 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5222
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

developers are not your enemy either... they have to do the work and can best guess what time is needed. Guess why most technical companies are led by technicians. Of course you also need sales people or marketing or accountants, but you need a mixture between sales people and technicians, if one side decides everything you get in trouble (that is my experience).

And yes there is a "obsession" in speed, together with other components like graphic cards or ram it decides what you can do with the hardware.

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 9:18:44
#956 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5222
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

the raspberry is a cheap toy, nobody expects it to compare to modern but much more expensive hardware. So if both have similar performance I am really wondering what people expect to do with Tabor and similar embedded hardware when using it as desktop. But you do not need to understand everything

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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 9:51:29
#957 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3663
From: Unknown

@paolone

The main components for my Windows 7 machine cost less than US$200.00 (Motherboard,ram & CPU), so enought cash left to purchase a powerpc machine to run AmigaOS 4.1 . Nothing hurting .

Quote:

paolone wrote:
Quote:

CodeSmith wrote:

I think a fair comparison would be tabor vs raspberry pi 2, ie low end hobby grade hardware that's not cranked out in millions of units. Lots of people use pi 2s for "desktop" type tasks like media center boxes.
Anyone here with a pi care to run the same tests and post the results?


Are you serious?

There's no chance to "fair comparing" two products that cost 1x and 10x respectively. Benchmarks are commercially used to let people understand what's "more powerful for the price", and when you're selling and/or evangelizing a product that you would be successfull, and limit comparisons with something else that does the same work for a 10% of the price (admitting that this Tabor will cost €300 and no more, which will unlikely happen IMHO), then you've lost from the beginning.

The phone in my pocket scores above 4000. I wonder for how much time, you people, will go on hurting yourselves.

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Overflow 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 10:10:03
#958 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1492
From: Norway

The whole price vs performance discussion is a bit odd.

Yes, everyone knows it doesnt even begin to scale vs mainstream hardware (due to both hardware choice AND driversupport).

But both Ssolie and Trevor have used the term "hobby", altho at the same time wanting to create a hobby platform that can sustain itself with developers making enough to stick around.
I remember Daytona/Daniel making a comment over a year ago that his game didnt even support his sigarett expenses during development. Tho, over the last year, he has gotten alot of more exposure.

Anyhow, back to the price vs performance issue. I know some of you think the hobby argument is an automatic "get out of jail" freecard with regards to reasonable pricing.
But take another hardware hobby; cars.
You can go supercheap and tinker with your old Volvo or a bit more exlusive and buy for example a Citroën Traction Avant. Good luck getting a good price vs performance out of the equation.
Yes, I realise the Citroën Traction Avant is a old car, but the whole point is; its a hobby for most people, something they do for fun.
Ssolie did mention this during his AmiWest speech when asked about moving to mainstream hardware; and he said for himself he didnt really see it as a intresting alternative.
Then it just became one of xxxxx OS's. Wether or not it would be the right choice of the OS he couldnt say. BUT from his own point of view, it was intresting to tinker with PPC and "obscure" hardware.

Personally Im going semi cheap and investing in classic hardware addons for my A1200. Horrible investment if you look at price vs performance, but its ...fun?

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 10:15:45
#959 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5222
From: Unknown

@Overflow

I have just posted new videos for Vampire 600 and 500 (yes for A500). The cards will be very affordable and as far as I know have 128 MB and HDMI port. I am looking forward to it too. I see the geek and fun factor in such a hardware but nobody expects it to be used as first computer system (in opposite to what people want to do with NG hardware). Someone moaned on another forum that the Sam 460 he bought for 1000 EUR is not as fast as a cheaper but more powerful PC. The expectations are different. If Tabor is ok will very much depend on the price, hardware is far inferior even today, not to speak of 2017 or 2018.

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Overflow 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 9-Nov-2015 10:25:39
#960 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1492
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Indeed.

As far as Sam460 being bought @1000EUR and then complaining; its hard to sympatize when the info regarding performance and issues is easily available thru websearches or simply asking on forums BEFORE you purchase.

As for the classic market; considering the A1200 case kickstarter was successful, for a rather large sum of money considering the target market; there is clearly potential customers out there.

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