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/  Forum Index
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      /  Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
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PosterThread
ne_one 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 30-Oct-2015 19:39:45
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

Does the original source code license include provisions for stipulating how derived work can be repurposed?

Looks like it will be useful mostly as a learning resource.

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Rob 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 30-Oct-2015 20:18:04
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6359
From: S.Wales

@Chain-Q

Quote:
Well, the source is full of the usual OS4isms anyway. Probably not useful on any other system (including classic) without a massive rewrite. (Still, it's probably OK as a reference.)


It relies on .so objects at the moment. The reason they were included in 4.1 was to making porting of apps like Firefox a little less time consuming. Obviously the next step is to making real Amiga libraries for Timberwolf to use.

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paolone 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 30-Oct-2015 22:16:21
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

"Say something amigan!"

"/* ***** BEGIN LICENSE BLOCK *****
*
* The contents of this file is copyrighted by Thomas and Hans-Joerg Frieden.
* It's content is not open source and may not be redistributed, modified or adapted
* without permission of the above-mentioned copyright holders.
*
* Since this code was originally developed under an AmigaOS related bounty, any derived
* version of this file may only be used on an official AmigaOS system.
*
* Contributor(s):
* Thomas Frieden
* Hans-Joerg Frieden
*
* ***** END LICENSE BLOCK ***** */"



Sincerely. Words like these ones are in deep contrast to any possible extension or re-interpretating of what "open source" means, really. I hope they've been forgot there by mistake.

edit: calmed down a bit

Last edited by paolone on 30-Oct-2015 at 10:24 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 30-Oct-2015 23:27:37
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2949
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Rob
Quote:

It relies on .so objects at the moment. The reason they were included in 4.1 was to making porting of apps like Firefox a little less time consuming. Obviously the next step is to making real Amiga libraries for Timberwolf to use.


Yes, than plan worked out really well :)

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saimon69 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 30-Oct-2015 23:31:29
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2007
Posts: 307
From: Los Angeles, CA

@paolone

Have some kind of deja vu... remember Warp3d was released in similar -actually stricter- fashion (obsolete for AROS now but is the principle) and similarly was Ambient on the blue camp as GPL (incompatible with APL)

Last edited by saimon69 on 30-Oct-2015 at 11:32 PM.

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zzd10h 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 30-Oct-2015 23:53:07
#26 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1077
From: France

Funny, all OS4 threads are lot of NON OS4 guys that speak for nothing.

Most populars threads on Amiga.org or AmigaWorld are :
Tabor, AEon call for developers, OS4 Timberwolf GitHub

And there are only filled with endless speak about :
-lack of FPU of the Tabor CPU from guys that will never bought an OS4 PPC
-guys that will neither bought any AMIStore product nor spend time to develop for AEon
-a useless license header about a useless program, Timberwolf. We, all, use Odyssey !

You like to look clever. It's your right.
You have Morphzone or Aros-exec to do that.
But please, don't disturb thread where you have no interest.

Thank you (without animosity)

PS : true, if Hyperion and/or AEon communications was better, it will avoid all these useless threads...

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saimon69 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 0:09:24
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2007
Posts: 307
From: Los Angeles, CA

@zzd10h

Tell it to Steven Solie, he is theone that talk about cooperation between the fields, so when I (tempted to use plural majestatis but won't, i give that to wifey :/ ) see something that show the opposite i voice it out - technically is cooperating too albeit might sound irritating; so if that header is efectively a leftover or is consideret to have legal value i guess Friedens should say it to wipe out doubts...

Last edited by saimon69 on 31-Oct-2015 at 12:10 AM.

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tygre 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 0:37:45
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2011
Posts: 279
From: Montreal, QC, Canada

@paolone and all

It may not be that bad because "only" 98 files out of 50,271 have this header. I haven't look at their complexity but eventually they could be reimplemented.

(Using "grep -iR Frieden * | wc -l" and "find . -type f | wc -l")

Cheers!

Last edited by tygre on 31-Oct-2015 at 12:38 AM.

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zzd10h 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 0:40:09
#29 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1077
From: France

@saimon69

"Tell it to Steven Solie..."
Cooperation even in his own "camp" is no way :
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=797847&postcount=30


But it was not the subject...

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kolla 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 0:44:13
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2949
From: Trondheim, Norway

@zzd10h

Quote:

-lack of FPU of the Tabor CPU from guys that will never bought an OS4 PPC


Yes, a lot of people are declaring it out loudly _why_ they never, and most likely never _will_ buy a PowerPC box for OS4 - because they always are expensive and/or underpowered.

Quote:

-guys that will neither bought any AMIStore product nor spend time to develop for Aeon


Plenty of people want to spend time to develop for Amiga, for the operating system and for the user - but to develop for a company and adhere to NDAs etc is a totally different thing.

Quote:
-a useless license header about a useless program, Timberwolf. We, all, use Odyssey !


Yes - do you see the irony in using and preferring an open source browser instead of Timberwolf on OS4??

Quote:

You like to look clever. It's your right.
You have Morphzone or Aros-exec to do that.
But please, don't disturb thread where you have no interest.


I have a vast interest in the concept of open source in general, and perhaps on Amiga in particular.

Now - enjoy your open source browser on OS4 - software that according to the developers of OS4 and their ilk is not suited for this "market".

Last edited by kolla on 31-Oct-2015 at 12:44 AM.

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Develin 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 1:01:18
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 443
From: Karlstad, Sweden

@zzd10h

wait a moment...

There is a topic about a certaint thing on an discussion forum and suddenly there is a healthy disusssion of a topic. What do you think when knowledgable people see the obvious should they keep their mouth shut then ?


* If one see the obvious flaws of not having a proper FPU integrated in the CPU when there is actual good alternatives. ?
* Many of people have bought stuff from AMIStore even though they are not interested in OS4 projects.
* If stuff is useless, why is it placed there in the first place (about the header) ?


If people are so touchy that they can't take an discussion on an discussion forum, I wonder if the problem really is the one that actually is talking about the topic or the one that is triggered by them (like you now)...

I mean we all enjoy the spirit of the Amiga, that's why we're here in the first place but why on earth won't it be allowed to ask questions about unclear or strange decisions ?

If a user (who don't) own AmigaOS4 for example wouldn't be allowed to have opinons about it, why one decision which was done (or not) should be forbidden to open his/her mind about it. They are most probably interested in it for some reason since they spent valueable time comment it. If we should forbid any healthy discussion on anything that attract our eyes (and heart), where on earth are the world heading ?

Yes, I do own AmigaOS4 btw...

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iggy 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 1:12:45
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@zzd10h

Quote:
Funny, all OS4 threads are lot of NON OS4 guys that speak for nothing.


You probably should not spend too much talking about this, when there are circumstances you aren't really aware of.
There has been a remarkable amount of cooperation, most of it sponsored by A-eon.

But you CAN'T expect the vendors of two competing commercially sold OS' to pass back and forth information on proprietary software.

AROS is an open OS, not OS4 or MorphOS.

Its not an issue of camps, as these two OS' continue to diverge, its more a matter of not wanting to contaminate each others creative process.

That is why Piru objected to the copying of headers, its copying.

You guys tend to dismiss things too easily.

And yes, Tabor IS a disappointment.
Not because of anything related to OS4 (and plenty of OS4 users have sided with me on that).
Its because its design and the of the choice of cpu.

I'm all for both PPC NG OS' being ported to the X5000.
I just don't want Tabor to negatively reflect on MorphOS (which is unlikely since I don't think its going to be ported).

Addendum - How would YOU know if someone is an "OS4 guy" or not.
Hey, some people (like AmigaDave) use...horrors...BOTH OS'!

Last edited by iggy on 31-Oct-2015 at 01:43 AM.
Last edited by iggy on 31-Oct-2015 at 01:42 AM.
Last edited by iggy on 31-Oct-2015 at 01:37 AM.
Last edited by iggy on 31-Oct-2015 at 01:13 AM.

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zzd10h 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 1:51:19
#33 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1077
From: France

@Develin

"If people are so touchy that they can't take an discussion on an discussion forum, I wonder if the problem really is the one that actually is talking about the topic or the one that is triggered by them (like you now)..."

Seriously, do you read all the digression on the os4 threads ?
More than 40 pages for Tabor subjects ?
This TW thread will do the same.
amigaKit thread on Amiga.org was splitted because of off-topic too.

I'm not touchy, do what you want, i wanted just to spot the fact that only non os4 users wasted their time on these topics.

You are an os4 users, good for you.

I regret the death of moo-bunny...






Last edited by zzd10h on 31-Oct-2015 at 01:51 AM.

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Develin 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 6:52:14
#34 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 443
From: Karlstad, Sweden

@zzd10h

But the thread about Tabor was not in a OS4 forum section was it?
It was under Amiga general.

I do stand by my point that many are acting to touchy as soon as something is questionable. It's in the nature of the human to analyze stuff in bits and pieces. As long as the people behind the object that is under the "magnifier" has anything to say about the comments and think they are totally wrong I'd say that everything is all valid until they are proven otherwise.

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ASiegel 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 9:51:56
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@zzd10h

Quote:
Seriously, do you read all the digression on the os4 threads ?
More than 40 pages for Tabor subjects ?
This TW thread will do the same.
amigaKit thread on Amiga.org was splitted because of off-topic too.

But, you see, these are not all "os4 threads". Like with the X1000, A-Eon will be offering Linux for the Tabor mainboard and one of their Linux developers stated on Pegasosforum that they would love to see MorphOS run on it.

Likewise, AmigaKit clarified that their request for "Amiga developers" also includes those who develop for AROS and MorphOS.

Quote:
I'm not touchy, do what you want, i wanted just to spot the fact that only non os4 users wasted their time on these topics.

You might want to read those discussions again. Your statement is rather easy to disprove considering how many OS4 users participated by posting both supporting and questioning comments.

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pavlor 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 10:52:40
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9598
From: Unknown

@ASiegel

Quote:
You might want to read those discussions again. Your statement is rather easy to disprove


I wonder then, why supporters AROS68k are so interested in PowerPC boards... their share of post in respective topics is really high.

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itix 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 10:58:54
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@umisef

The license is indeed "interesting" but it does not really matter when the source base is four or five years old with IExec. It is too old, too OS4 specific.

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terminills 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 11:15:30
#38 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I'm an AROS68K supporter and I don't give a rats arse about PowerPC boards ;) I do however have an interest in all flavors of Amiga like OSes.

Last edited by terminills on 31-Oct-2015 at 11:16 AM.

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amigang 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 11:15:31
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2026
From: Cheshire, England

Pleased that the source code has come out, but feel that its a bit of shame it wasn't a few years ago and that the project has been left dormant now for maybe a little too long to warrant someone trying to pickup the project and carry on with it.

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OlafS25 
Re: Timberwolf now open sourced!!!
Posted on 31-Oct-2015 11:21:30
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6369
From: Unknown

@pavlor

then why discuss it on general boards at all and not keep it on forums like amigans.net?

People said choice of processor is "not optimal" and that was admitted

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