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      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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PosterThread
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 8-Mar-2017 22:15:31
#1081 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1540
From: Norway



A600 IDE speedup tests with latest WIP core.

Last edited by Overflow on 08-Mar-2017 at 10:15 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Mar-2017 20:27:54
#1082 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1540
From: Norway

http://aminet.net/package/dev/lib/libTinyGL

Intresting part;

"Norbert Kett:
In 2017 I found this lib, and started to work with. I strongly reorganized the code, fixed many issues, removed some unused functions, and added many new features. Now it works with GLQuake. The pixel blending is still missing.

My goal is to make a nice and fast OpenGL lib for Vampire cards :)"

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Mar-2017 21:26:55
#1083 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8900
From: Unknown

@Overflow

Software rendering...

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fishy_fis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Mar-2017 21:43:24
#1084 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1829
From: Australia

@wawa

I agree, a few videos with some different sorts of content would be nice.

A few suggestions from me:

Snes9x (SNES emu)
Fpse (PlayStation emu)
Dgen (megadrive emu)
Dnet
Lame (or similar audio encoding/decoding software)
Payback

The above are all heavy enough to give an idea what to expect, while being neither unrealistic for vampire, nor realistic for a stock 680x0 Amiga.
PlayStation emulation is probably for the most part too heavy even for vampire, but there are some games with surprisingly low requirements.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 9-Mar-2017 23:58:27
#1085 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@Overflow

Quote:
My goal is to make a nice and fast OpenGL lib for Vampire cards :)"


minigl is strongly limited. it doesnt have speed advantage on simple scenes in comparison to storm mesa, which is a rather proper mesa port, while minigl was developed to serve particular game ports and lacks the functionality these ports do not demand. not to mention that minigl uses some syntax incompatible with the genuine gl, afair, which makes it harder to port gl code.

its been years since bernd, matthey and alain were at it and i tried to help a little. well, minigl may have some speed advantage on complex scenes, but this is uncertain.

here, the archive should contain the sources, while the genuine storm mesa sources are on aminet as well.
http://aminet.net/util/libs/StormMesa2010.lha

Last edited by wawa on 10-Mar-2017 at 01:28 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 10-Mar-2017 at 01:27 AM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 5:34:55
#1086 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1540
From: Norway

@wawa

Well, the intresting part is that its a skilled developer that seems to turn his attention towards Vampire. And since the Vampire Core is work in progress (FPU is something 3D would benefit from, if supported), I assume/hope Norberts work is the same.
It will be intresting to see if he expands upon the lib.

Other than that, maybe Mesa would be a better area for Norbert to turn his attention towards with regard to Vampire support. We will see what he decides to do

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BSzili 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 9:04:55
#1087 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 303
From: Unknown

@wawa

TinyGL != MiniGL. This port uses the headers taken directly from Mesa for source code compatibility.

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I see the jimmies have been rustled.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 11:37:34
#1088 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@BSzili

Quote:
TinyGL != MiniGL. This port uses the headers taken directly from Mesa for source code compatibility.


you are right. i have overlooked that it is thinygl, which is morphos library as far as i know, i have no experience with. nevertheless i seem to remember that its been said that tinygl is even a subset of minigl functionality, but maybe it is faster. how does it interface to the hardware? directly? mesa and minigl sit upon warp3d, which has an advantage of a separate flexible driver layer, on the other hand both suffer the bottlieneck of limitations of warp3d functionality, which might have not been no go at their time.

if love to see development with some perspective in mind, rather than what might occur to be an ortodox solution limited only to vampire users.

edit: too many typos, now less..

Last edited by wawa on 10-Mar-2017 at 12:31 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 10-Mar-2017 at 12:31 PM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 11:50:34
#1089 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Software rendering...


maybe he is going to use some (unique or future) features of apollo core like ammx, hardcoded into that lib. id rather have some hardware abstraction layer for 3d, but nice to see people getting inspired anyway. lets see how this rolls off.

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BSzili 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 12:17:12
#1090 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 303
From: Unknown

@wawa

It doesn't. TinyGL was written by Fabrice Bellard, and it uses software rasterization. It's not tied to Vampire in any way, other than being potentially useful there. The MorphOS library with the same name was based on it, but it was heavily modified and it is proprietary to MorphOS.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 22:14:03
#1091 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@BSzili

thx. i have no detailed info on the matter. imho it woulf br good to estabilsh a cross platform standard and work on thist together, but as usual its almost impossible.

minimax kinf of solutions that occure to me with the vampire in mind are to deliver fpu on part of apollo core, construct tinygl ammx vampire backend and add an ammx vampire backend to wazp3d.

that might solve the existing software demands as well as open the way for further development.

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OneTimer1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 22:16:14
#1092 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 401
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@Overflow

Quote:
* Scan-lines


do they have even a flicker fixer functionality built in to provide filters over the output? what games output on hdmi out anyway, that aint meant for rtg? puzzles me..


AFAIK they don't have a flicker fixer (now) ...


I don't like Gunnar calling his (really good) frame buffer SAGA, it does not have any AGA, ECS or OCS capabilities until it gets a build in Amiga Chipset emulation like a Minimig has.

For a flicker fixer he would need some wires to the Amiga chipset like every built in flicker fixers has, I don't know if he want to got this way.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Mar-2017 22:45:47
#1093 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@OneTimer1

lets not be picky. even if gunnar has not provided the (extended) chipset equivalent, he has provided enough. the question is not the names, but how to adjust, synchronize, develop and use the projects in parallel to each other, rather than concurrent to each other. as example, the amiga chipset fpga implementation being minimig is mature and needs only minor adjustments or extensions to become, what "saga" is expected to be. it is a matter of cooperation and sharing, otherwise everybody will again cook their own soup forever without being able to serve the gone public in the end.

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ErikBauer 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Mar-2017 11:09:13
#1094 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1095
From: Italy

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@OneTimer1

lets not be picky. even if gunnar has not provided the (extended) chipset equivalent, he has provided enough. the question is not the names, but how to adjust, synchronize, develop and use the projects in parallel to each other, rather than concurrent to each other. as example, the amiga chipset fpga implementation being minimig is mature and needs only minor adjustments or extensions to become, what "saga" is expected to be. it is a matter of cooperation and sharing, otherwise everybody will again cook their own soup forever without being able to serve the gone public in the end.


I fully agree

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Signman 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Mar-2017 15:30:36
#1095 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 86
From: Unknown

@OneTimer1

How many people are aware of the video signal output from Vampire?
One for hdmi which is rtg and handling mostly workbench.

Gaming needs another monitor from the rgb port. Unless you have a monitor that can handle both that means two monitors.

Have I missed something?

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Signman 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Mar-2017 15:31:14
#1096 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 86
From: Unknown

@OneTimer1

How many people are aware of the video signal output from Vampire?
One for hdmi which is rtg and handling mostly workbench.

Gaming needs another monitor from the rgb port. Unless you have a monitor that can handle both that means two monitors.

Have I missed something?

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Mar-2017 18:24:55
#1097 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@Signman

according to my information, this is a preliminary situation. vampire/apollo should effectively receive chipset emulation and be able to actually deliver/reroute aga output via hdmi. whether this will work satisfactory, i cant tell, but condidering they have been able to speedup the internal ide port of a600 by factor 3-4 i think the chances are good.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Mar-2017 16:32:51
#1098 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

apparently an own scan doubling solution for vampire:

http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=4173&order=&x=0

new saga functionalities, planar support:

http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=4191

attempt an opengl solution (library):

http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=4142&x=

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 1:32:11
#1099 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1540
From: Norway

Vampire production video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcMoqX9LRZo

Originally posted here; http://www.majsta.com/

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Mar-2017 1:42:45
#1100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4689
From: UK

@Overflow

Wow! Beats doing it by hand and ending up in A&E every few days! Correct decision.

Reminds me of THIS!

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