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dommer416 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 16:27:14
#1341 ]
Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2017
Posts: 55
From: Western Earth

So when does the Vamp V4 happen?

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 16:58:44
#1342 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Overflow

I'm curious about a couple of data points.

a) How does one interpret the clock speed here? or, what is the actual clock speed? The Apollo page tells me only how performance is comparable to several systems (400 MHz 040, 200MHz 060, etc) so I'm curious what its actual clock speed is.

b) Looks nice in comparison to 20 year-old hardware, but by way of comparison a several year-old 2.5GHz Core i5 looks 170 times faster in the Dhrystone comparison (17069702 v. 99790). That's not a complaint, but it is why I want to know the actual clock speed, and how the Apollo might improve as FPGA's improve.

Sorry if this is an old, hashed-out topic, but I haven't paid attention to this until recently.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:07:42
#1343 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8807
From: Unknown

@simplex

Clock speed says nothing. Only application performance really matters.

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:10:20
#1344 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@simplex

Quote:
How does one interpret the clock speed here? or, what is the actual clock speed?


I think I found the answer to my own question. At this page on the Apollo Forum Gunnar calls it an 80MHz FPGA.

So if I understand correctly, 1.5 GHz / 80MHz comes to 18.75 times faster, while the MacBook Pro is performing about 170 times faster. Considering all the other issues involved (bus speed, cache, etc.) I know it's not completely comparable, but it answers the question I had: it would take a lot more than ramping up the clock speed to obtain the same performance.

If, as I say, I understand correctly. I'd be happy to be made to understand more correctly.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:10:44
#1345 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1536
From: Norway

@simplex

Good question, and Gunnar pretty much flat out says Sysinfo isnt a good test for CPU test.
But its one that most are familiar with, so I guess thats why its being shown.

A discussion on that topic is here;

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2e=8375

EDIT:

And I agree with pavlor, application speed is what matters at the end of the day.

Im sure betatesters are going to release youtubes with their tests in the coming days.

Last edited by Overflow on 03-Sep-2017 at 05:13 PM.

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:14:19
#1346 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@pavlor

I understand that clock speed is not everything. Apple's Photoshop demo on a PowerPC G4 ran circles around Photoshop on x86 machines of the time, despite the G4's having a much lower clock speed. And yet you still would not want an Apple all the time.

But it still says something. Some people actually live and die by CPU computation speed alone, being able to hold/organize nearly everything in cache (some special-case computer algebra systems are designed precisely for this).

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:16:11
#1347 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Overflow

Thanks, but something went wrong with the link -- it takes me to the main Apollo Forum.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:19:43
#1348 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1536
From: Norway

@simplex

Welp! Im not allowed to edit that post for some reason.

Its the 160 mips thread

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 17:44:47
#1349 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8807
From: Unknown

@simplex

Quote:
But it still says something


Yes, 25 MHz 68020 is as fast as 25 MHz 68040...

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 21:56:46
#1350 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@pavlor

Quote:
Yes, 25 MHz 68020 is as fast as 25 MHz 68040...


...and half as slow as a 50 MHz 68020. It says something.

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 3-Sep-2017 22:00:43
#1351 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@Overflow

Here's an important point of Gunnar's:

Quote:
SYSINFO is a fake.
Sysinfo claims to measure Dhrystone results but does not implement the dhrystone test.


I hope to see some real Dhrystone tests eventually.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 4-Sep-2017 6:24:31
#1352 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 821
From: Vancouver, Canada


Quote:

dommer416 wrote:
So when does the Vamp V4 happen?


"Apollo Team expects first batch of Vampire V4 to be available in Q417. An official ETA will be announced once
first batch order is processed at factory. Strategy is to deliver first A1000/A500/A2000/CDTV model, then
standalone system and finally A1200 one."

Pulled from the full release announcement PDF: http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/files/V4_announcement_v1_5.pdf

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 4-Sep-2017 14:26:04
#1353 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8807
From: Unknown

@simplex

Quote:
...and half as slow as a 50 MHz 68020. It says something.


That was irony... 68040 25 MHz is 3-4x faster in most integer benchmarks than 68020 25 MHz (not even counting bulit-in FPU).

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simplex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 4-Sep-2017 18:21:00
#1354 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 729
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@pavlor

Quote:
That was irony... 68040 25 MHz is 3-4x faster in most integer benchmarks than 68020 25 MHz (not even counting bulit-in FPU).


Ah. I figured you were being pedantic, inasmuch as the clock speed is the same, so, "just as fast."

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 4-Sep-2017 18:56:47
#1355 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8807
From: Unknown

@simplex

Quote:
inasmuch as the clock speed is the same, so, "just as fast."


Just as fast... I wonder why people spend so much for 68040 boards when these are just as fast as their good old 68020/68030s.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Sep-2017 3:52:42
#1356 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1536
From: Norway

Quoted from Gunnars post on apollo forum;

Quote:
There is a significant FPU performance speed increase in
GOLD 2.7 and latest WIP FEMU.

In some real world FPU benchmarks even results
outclassing 68882 FPU, beating 68040 FPU,
and reaching the speed of 68060+FPU
are achieved.


Last edited by Overflow on 11-Sep-2017 at 03:55 AM.

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ErikBauer 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:07:20
#1357 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1093
From: Italy

Latest news on ApolloCore forum, posted by Gunnar:

Quote:
The Apollo-team did great work on the new VAMPIRE-GFX driver. The new GFX driver is AMMX enabled and improves GFX-performance significantly. AMIGA GFX performance is now clearly lead by SAGA - VAMPIRE.



Image showing the results HERE


So, Vampire not only is the fastest (Integer) 68K Amiga available, but looks to also be the fastest 2D Chipset available for 68K software. That's good

Last edited by ErikBauer on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:10 AM.
Last edited by ErikBauer on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:08 AM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:20:05
#1358 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1536
From: Norway

Adding to Bauers post above;

Quote:


The picture combines 3 GFX cards.
LEFT = Cybervision64 in an AMIGA-4000 with 68060 CPU
Middle = Picasso IV in an AMIGA-4000 with 68060 CPU
RIGHT = Amiga 600 with SAGA-VAMPIRE (68080 CPU) running GOLD 2.7 prerelease

You see in each picture the scores of the test.

For example


WRITE CHUNK PIXEL
Cybervision64 = 892
PICASSO IV = 637
SAGA VAMPIRE-2 = 6580
For comparison
AMIGA 4000T with 604e 200mhz/060/128mb mit CybervisionPPC scores:
WriteChunkyPixels = 1097


Higher result is better.

Behind the score is also printed a factor.
For the PICASSO IV is in white in this row a "10.33"
This means SAGA VAMPIRE is 10.33 times faster than PICASSO IV in this test.



Seems to be developments on the AROS front too Vampirewise;

50% of the GFX driver is done, HW sprite, IDE practically fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6RSWp-rBs

Last edited by Overflow on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:22 AM.
Last edited by Overflow on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:20 AM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:47:25
#1359 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@Overflow

i have an impression that it is in both cases the same p96 saga driver.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 14:27:03
#1360 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

heres apparently a short video about a current status of aros on a vampire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlsBpJCsViw&feature=youtu.be
among others owb browsing to aros-exec. admittedly it loads ages, but the binary is huge and if its run for the first time it may need to build font cache. apparantly it takes 20s to render the page, it isnt that great, but then it is a css browser.

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