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PosterThread
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 19:20:23
#1741 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

@megol

Well, ferrels might attack kollas person, but you managed to do the same in your last scentance.

" Apollo community is a sect like closed group"

There might or might not be people that falls on their knees praising whatever a projectleader says, be it Apollo or any other project.
But I think most of the Vampire owners enjoy the userfriendliness aspect of it, and on the flipside have a very neutral attitude to most projects.
That said, its hard not to be impressed by the hard work. Just like Chucky that is working on his 060 board. I heard Truck refrence it during the Amiga Demo compo Revision 2019.

Britelite has come with some very clear and constructive critisisms and concerns as to why he reject the project (or at the very least doesnt consider investing time or money into it).
Thats fine, and I totally understand his point of view.

So dont place us all into ONE category.

Last edited by Overflow on 19-Jun-2019 at 07:22 PM.

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ferrels 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 20:05:19
#1742 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 825
From: Arizona

@megol


Quote:
Well he isn't too positive but often correct. I'd take correct over positive.


You have an odd perspective on correct. For months Kolla attacked the Apollo Team relentlessly over the lack of an MMU and FPU even after Gunnar announced that an FPU with 100% compatibility was the goal. This hasn't changed. And there is an MMU. Gunnar just hasn't released the info on how to take advantage of it, probably just to spite Kolla for his months-long attacks.

As for demos, many of them won't run on stock or accelerated Amigas for various reasons, most of them hardware related and they will never run on every Amiga. I'd wager that the Vampire runs more Amiga demos than most stock or accelerated Amigas, simply because the team still actively develops the Apollo core and responds when someone finds a demo that doesn't work. You won't see that happen for classic, stock or accelerated Amigas unless you're under the delusion that Hyperion will come to the rescue or that Commodore was just resurrected.

As for me attacking anyone in a personal manner, that's just bull. I don't know what Kolla looks like, what he smells like, or anything else about him that's personal in nature nor did I refer to anything about his person. I referenced how he was banned at the Apollo Forums. Kolla was banned at least twice from the Apollo forums, first when using his Kolla profile for his trolling and then again after he registered a shill profile when his Kolla account was permanently banned. Since when has stating a fact become a personal attack? There's quite a long thread about it over at the Apollo forum where he and Gunnar go back and forth over his misuse/abuse of accounts and constant trolling. He's also been threatened numerous times over at EAB for the same behavior. The ax he has to grind with Gunnar and the Apollo Team goes far beyond personal. Whenever anyone from any forum discusses the Vampire, he inevitably appears and starts attacking by parroting the same comments over and over like a broken record.

Last edited by ferrels on 19-Jun-2019 at 08:33 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 19-Jun-2019 at 08:08 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 19-Jun-2019 at 08:07 PM.

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Mr-Z 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 20:16:38
#1743 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-May-2005
Posts: 186
From: De Keistad, Netherlands

@ferrels

Repeating comments over and over like broken record is a well known strategy called 'framing'.
Lawyers do this all the time but then smarter.

But now why not returning ontopic ?

Turn on and off scanlines when you like

https://youtu.be/qUGkbt_9uDI

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ferrels 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 20:23:48
#1744 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 825
From: Arizona

@Mr-Z


Exactly, or this link:

Link


And this one is pretty amazing: Link

But this piece of news is probably the most interesting one of late. Over 200 MIPs...Link

Last edited by ferrels on 19-Jun-2019 at 08:30 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 19-Jun-2019 at 08:26 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 20:55:43
#1745 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9002
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
But this piece of news is probably the most interesting one of late. Over 200 MIPs...Link


Year 1996 performance. Nice!

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megol 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Jun-2019 11:45:18
#1746 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 316
From: Unknown

@Overflow
It wasn't my intention to paint all Apollo supporters or even members of their main forum as sectarian so for those feeling personally attacked I sincerely apologize. Most contributors/actual members of the project also seem reasonable (if perhaps too accepting of bad behavior).

But look at the group dynamics and control of the forum combined with attacks for those that dare question the holy words or sometimes just wanting an explanation, isn't that typical for a sect?

Note that I've recommended Vampire boards as the best price/performance for those not wanting pure emulation and planning to retrofit at least one of my machines with one (waiting to see if the stand alone board would be better). However blind devotion isn't for me.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Jun-2019 11:58:42
#1747 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

@megol

I agree with your comments above, but on the flipside, we see how some threads spiral out of control when not moderated. Damien called it quits as EAB moderator, and a while ago he tried to get me to join the team, just cause he was overworked and getting frustrated trying to keep up with the barrage of stuff to keep up with.
Having been a moderator in the past, I know how punishing it can be.

So, while I agree with some/many of kollas posts, he has a tendency to kick sand in the eyes of whoever he discusses with.
This usually spirals out of control, leaving moderators bouncing off the wall.

Then take Britelites tone. Hes neutral toned and friendly overall. So when he make clear points, its impossible to get annoyed with him, and it wont lead to a threadnought that will need moderating.

So I think tone is more the issue than anything else.

Last edited by Overflow on 20-Jun-2019 at 12:01 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Jun-2019 21:43:29
#1748 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5544
From: Unknown

@pavlor

yes and the so called NG platforms are on level of 2005

Nice progress ;)

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Jun-2019 22:48:12
#1749 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4927
From: UK

@OlafS25

Yay! The Amiga survived into the 21st century!



... and yes the cup is half full my friend not half empty

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bennymee 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 12:02:54
#1750 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 538
From: Netherlands

@OlafS25

If my AmigaOne, here on my desk, had a Workbench running in 4K ultra resolution in 2005, that would make headlines ;)

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Lou 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 12:38:55
#1751 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3976
From: Rhode Island

@bennymee

Quote:

bennymee wrote:
@OlafS25

If my AmigaOne, here on my desk, had a Workbench running in 4K ultra resolution in 2005, that would make headlines ;)

LOL @ 4k in 2005 using a gpu from 2010+ with drivers written in 2018...!

In 2000, when 4:3 was still the rage, my Win98 desktop was 1920x1600. Funny how vertical resolution regressed in the "HD" era...

Anyways, I too used to think Kolla was a pest until I started to realize he is usually right.

These forums are full of spectacularly untechnical zealot-ous "yes-men".
Gunnar banned me for pointing out that 1 SIMD unit wasn't going to even be acceptable for PS1-level 3D and that those systems with 1/4th or LESS the cpu power and MUCH SLOWER memory bandwidth and limited to 1-4 MB of RAM ... were pulling off 100,000 texture-mapped and shaded polygons/second due to dedicated chips running many SIMD units in parallel. I guess I'm not a yes-man.

Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 01:55 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 12:50 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 12:45 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 12:44 PM.

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 12:47:44
#1752 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1295
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ferrels

Quote:

Quote:
I have yet to see it demonstrated as 100% compatible.


And if you're waiting for a 100% solution for anything, you're gonna die waiting


Right, which is why it is ironic that there is a claim for 100% compatibility.

I _never_ "demanded" or even asked for "100%" compatibility, this "100%" thing came from other people, most of all, it came from the team themselves.

Quote:
You should seek some professional help in regard to your obsessive compulsive disorder. Your constant attacks against anything Vampire could be characterized as stalking. Especially when you get banned in a particular forum and then create shill accounts just so that you can continue your attacks.


I am not the one who need psychiatric help here, all this "amiga drama" isn't even something that ever took much energy or effort for me, certain people are a lot more obsessed about me, than I am about them - that much is certain.

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 13:13:40
#1753 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1295
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ferrels

Quote:

You have an odd perspective on correct. For months Kolla attacked the Apollo Team relentlessly over the lack of an MMU and FPU


No I did not.

Regarding the FPU, the claim was that is _already_ was ready, just tiny little tests and tweaks before it would go into the core. Then it was delayed. The it was cancelled and it was declared that noone needs it anyways... and if you do, you can so easily emulate it anyways, which then was proven wrong many times including using FEMU, which then triggered development of FPU again... and now the V2 core is stuck with a rather unsatisfying FPU that may or may not work well with the software you want to run on it.

Quote:
even after Gunnar announced that an FPU with 100% compatibility was the goal. This hasn't changed.


See? I am not the one "demanding" 100% compatibility here - this _claim_ is coming from Gunnar himself - and this claim is yet to be proven correct.

Quote:
And there is an MMU. Gunnar just hasn't released the info on how to take advantage of it, probably just to spite Kolla for his months-long attacks.


You really think so, that I am the cause? The problem of MMU was not that it was "lacking", but that "anyone who needs MMU is an idiot" and that the AC68080 MMU is _undocumented_ and "secret", not even visible from whatever OS used on the Vampire. Which means that the Vampire team (or Gunnar) is _the only_ ones who can decide what operating system that will even run on their processor - which is rather crazy, if you want to "sell" this processor to a wider audience.


Quote:
I referenced how he was banned at the Apollo Forums. Kolla was banned at least twice from the Apollo forums, first when using his Kolla profile for his trolling and then again after he registered a shill profile when his Kolla account was permanently banned.


I only had _one_ account on that forum, and I still have it - there was never any dispute about this, and Gunanr knows perfectly well that I did not have more than this one account. At some point I was not allowed to post, unless I prove my identity by sending passport or driver license info to info@natami.net - considering how such personal information has been treated before by certain people in "the team", I am not stupid enough to do that. I still read the forum though, occasionally.

Quote:
Since when has stating a fact become a personal attack?

But what you are presenting here are not facts, they are fabricated rumours.

Quote:
There's quite a long thread about it over at the Apollo forum where he and Gunnar go back and forth over his misuse/abuse of accounts and constant trolling.


There was no such thread, Gunnar did not accuse me of "accounts", he knows perfectly well I only used my one account. It was others, like you, who made this claim that I had more accounts. Gunnar accused me of trolling, which seems to be symptomatic for certain people when they run out of arguments when trying to defend bad choices.

Quote:
He's also been threatened numerous times over at EAB for the same behavior.


Yeah, mostly by one guy, Damien, who has a record of jumping into discussions without reading context, and hand out yellow cards east and west, before he ruins the whole thread by splitting it into new threads...

Quote:
The ax he has to grind with Gunnar and the Apollo Team goes far beyond personal.


No, it is not "far beyond", it is exactly what you said - it is personal - the way Gunnar treats people who dare to question his choices is beyond what I would call "civilised", and this is also why so many developers only makes a quick visit before leaving again.

Quote:
Whenever anyone from any forum discusses the Vampire, he inevitably appears and starts attacking by parroting the same comments over and over like a broken record.


As long as untrues and incorrect information (about me) is repeated, I will point it out. So if you want to silence me, just stop writing BS.

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 13:30:31
#1754 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1295
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Lou

Quote:

These forums are full of spectacularly untechnical zealot-ous "yes-men".


That is an accurate observation. There is a high grade of "pack" mentality going on, where certain individuals can achieve "alpha" status, and then the "yes-men" will do whatever and write whatever to defend their "pack leader".

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 13:41:52
#1755 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1295
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Overflow

Quote:

Damien called it quits as EAB moderator.


Good news for EAB! :)

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Birbo 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 13:51:46
#1756 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 540
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@kolla

I stil am a big supporter of the Vampire project, but I had the same problems in the Apollo Core Forums.

Initially I had the idea of developing the piTop Laptop for the Vampire Standalone (Drivers & Interface). Unfortunately some of my posts have been deleted and honestly, I do not know why. Gunnar told me to stay on topic - that's it.

This was really disappointing to me. Sill, I will probably buy a Vampire Standalone, because I think it's an amazing piece of hardware and I like the idea behind. But I will probably not develop anything for it.

That's a bit sad.

Last edited by Birbo on 21-Jun-2019 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by Birbo on 21-Jun-2019 at 01:52 PM.

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Lou 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 14:04:23
#1757 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3976
From: Rhode Island

@Birbo

Quote:

Birbo wrote:
@kolla

I stil am a big supporter of the Vampire project, but I had the same problems in the Apollo Core Forums.

Initially I had the idea of developing the piTop Laptop for the Vampire Standalone (Drivers & Interface). Unfortunately some of my posts have been deleted and honestly, I do not know why. Gunnar told me to stay on topic - that's it.

This was really disappointing to me. Sill, I will probably buy a Vampire Standalone, because I think it's an amazing piece of hardware and I like the idea behind. But I will probably not develop anything for it.

That's a bit sad.

Yes, if you don't agree, you are clearly off-topic and must be banned!

I too was still interested in it until I caught wind of the TerribleFire accelerators for my only working Amiga - the CD32. Also, I'm looking forward to M.Schultz's AROS port for the Raspberry Pi. I'd gladly buy one of those preconfigured with AROS !!!

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 14:04:49
#1758 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

@Birbo

He has deleted one of my threads too, which is fine, cause it wasnt contructive when I think about it.

I dont know what was the case for you tho, if you tagged onto a thread and it diverged from the original post?

I have noticed that Gunnar is more agressive/strict about pointing people to the original posters framing of the thread, and if people wants to diverge, they should just make their own thread alltogether, with informative headline like "piTop Laptop - hardware/driver project" or somesuch.
So the threads become easier to nagivate.

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Lou 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 14:54:31
#1759 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3976
From: Rhode Island

@Overflow

Quote:

Overflow wrote:
@Birbo

He has deleted one of my threads too, which is fine, cause it wasnt contructive when I think about it.

I dont know what was the case for you tho, if you tagged onto a thread and it diverged from the original post?

I have noticed that Gunnar is more agressive/strict about pointing people to the original posters framing of the thread, and if people wants to diverge, they should just make their own thread alltogether, with informative headline like "piTop Laptop - hardware/driver project" or somesuch.
So the threads become easier to nagivate.

With me, it was when I realized his SAGA chipset is just him using the other cpu thread that the OS doesn't know about to do blitting and audio type functionality on memory rather than actually having dedicated chips (you know, in the Amiga way) rather than being all cpu-bound (like the mess that Sony's CELL processor was … and the Atari ST line). I called it hubris to think 1 cpu should do it all and that eventually it would be bottlenecked. Egos are such fragile things...

At least Atari learned from their short-comings and introduced Tom & Jerry chips on the Jaguar...you know, yet another underpowered platform that will outperform the Vampire in 3d...

Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 02:59 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2019 at 02:58 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Jun-2019 16:14:39
#1760 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

@Lou

Being a non-technical guy, nor a developer;

But wont having more chips add complexity in development, in hardware, core development and production line cost/overhead?

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