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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
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realize 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 2-Feb-2016 23:21:36
#241 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@Cheese and any other amiga os fanboys

Please DO NOT use the "two more weeks" its a morphos inside joke and very few people actually know what it really means. Stick to your lame " when its done" nonsense. (which is a pathetic catchphrase that people here think is cute)

and where is hyperion? not one post or response? how they do it i dont know...

as far as Vampire its awesome i had the v1 it was cool the new one looks amazing. its not just gunne there is a whole team of people and they are delivering and COMMUNICATING and not gouging the amiga community with unfair pricing.

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Overflow 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 2-Feb-2016 23:26:08
#242 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@realize

Yep, with regards to Apollo team, they are quite good at communicating.

IRC channel is quite active; irc.freenode.org port 6667

#apollo-team

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iggy 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 0:37:27
#243 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Cheese



And ypu STILL won't have OS4.2.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And, yeah, it is a joke the MorphOS community likes to bandy about.

Last edited by iggy on 03-Feb-2016 at 12:41 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 1:08:22
#244 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
I didn't actually 'promise' new PPC hardware, but I did try to explore the idea.

to quote you:
"To the naysayers, [...] A year from now, you will be eating your words."
so you simply made bold statements, then forwarded the issue to somone else, (who expectedly refused) and was ready with it, while actually badmouthing someone who did real work and actually did deliver. eehh, the forums.....

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realize 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 1:13:23
#245 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@Rob

Quote:
Do I have to post the photo of the Limebook with OS4 kickstart running on it too.
v

LMAO are you seriously posting that? How can you even begin to justify the insanity. If they had "OS4 up and working" as HErmans and others claimed why dont they release it as a seperate software for Limebook pcs? Why do they always bundle hardware with the os? hmmm i can tell you why but you arent going to like the answer...

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iggy 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 2:32:44
#246 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Well, I guess I will have to eat MY words.

But I'm not going to sweat it too much.

I have worked with hardware (and some software) since the '80s (for companies that needed to make a profit in order to pay me).
And always with a practical sound business perspective.

And I have also been a big supporter for PPC based systems for the last several years.
I still like them and may buy an X5000.
But this ride is about over guys.

Time to move on.
So I'm following my friends.

Legacy projects like the Vampire make sense to me.
Spending a lot of my own money just to throw pearls to swine doesn't.

And since I couldn't talk anyone into taking the risk with me...

Edit - I just re-read this after a short drive and its a little too mean.
Sorry.
I took that project very seriously, contacted several companies I have developed a relationship with about it, and in the end I just didn't get enough encouragement to continue.My mistake, I wanted good, modern hardware, but our community is probably better served by the hobbyist/niche stuff that is offered for legacy system owners.

Last edited by iggy on 03-Feb-2016 at 04:14 AM.
Last edited by iggy on 03-Feb-2016 at 02:33 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 8:29:36
#247 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

thanks, thats what it boils down to i guess;)

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 9:28:58
#248 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1096
From: Unknown

@iggy and others

The only problem for any Amiga (NG or whatever) related project are numbers.

"numbers" are high when they mean "costs". "Numbers" are low when they mean "sellable units".

It's not the right combo for making success. Or money as well.

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Yasu 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 9:56:06
#249 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2015
Posts: 224
From: Stockholm, Sweden

I thought the "2 more weeks" thing was a lot older. Gateway or even Escom older.

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 12:29:16
#250 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:
The only problem for any Amiga (NG or whatever) related project are numbers.


alas, in mot sure. but certainly as long as the ng options are primarly depending on supporting more and more different or exotic hardware, in order to sell machine bound licenses to fans eager to own each and every piece of it, we can imagine where it leads.

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Tomppeli 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 13:12:25
#251 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1643
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@cgutjahr

Quote:
The X1000 was advertised as "the fastest AmigaOS machine ever! Dualcore!" not as "doesn't do DMA initially, doesn't support front USB, you'll have to buy two or three graphics cards until you have one that we might sell you a driver for one day, do not try to play video!, dualcore support? HAHAHAHAHA".

Check your facts before you bring your lies here !

Last edited by Tomppeli on 03-Feb-2016 at 01:18 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. Amiga. Never forget.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

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Tomppeli 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 13:15:00
#252 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1643
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

Quote:
Cheese and any other amiga os fanboys

Realize calling Cheese as AmigaOS fanboy really made my day. (For a long time.)


Last edited by Tomppeli on 03-Feb-2016 at 01:17 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. Amiga. Never forget.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

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Zylesea 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 13:34:58
#253 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2209
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@realize

Don't take this so serious. You even mess up making fun (Cheese) with being serious.

Wasn't twoo more weeks something from the A1 days along with "on schedule and rocking"? But who actually cares. Things are moving - w/ or w/o OS4. Personally I don't give a #? about OS4 - as it stays on ppc its doomed anyway. There are plenty alternatives (MorphOS, AROS, FPGA/UAE).

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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fjudde 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 14:11:19
#254 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 146
From: Stockholm/Sweden

@realize
Quote:
Please DO NOT use the "two more weeks" its a morphos inside joke and very few people actually know what it really means. Stick to your lame " when its done" nonsense.


"Two more weeks"-discussions at MorphZone in 2006-2007 .

Quote:

"Two More Weeks"

Was a promise from Amiga, Inc's CEO, Bill McEwen about the release date for Amiga OS 4, coded by European company Hyperion Entertainment VOF, who were sold a license to the name by Amiga. This promise was made in what, 2001?

Quote:

OS4 (and a lot of other things related to Amiga Inc and Hyperion) has "always" (kind of ) been "just another two weeks away". I guess MorphOS being just 1.5 weeks away makes it better than OS4 in that area as well?


https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5088&forum=9

Quote:

I'm just curious. What's the deal with the line "Two more weeks" on the page http://www.morphos.de/?

It's been like that for quite some while now :)


Quote:

It's a kind of self-mockery by the MorphOS-Team.

From experience during the long and sad Amiga history, it became a dictum to say that some product which is supposed to be released not that soon (if ever) is just "two more weeks" away.
[Disclaimer to the MorphOS Team: This is no whining; I don't have a problem at all with 1.5 being released "when it's done".


https://morph.zone/discussion/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4899&forum=9

I don't think any camp can claim ownership of that phrase.

_________________
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 14:19:42
#255 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4427
From: Portsmouth England

@fjudde

Quote:

I don't think any camp can claim ownership of that phrase.


I don't think it's even amiga specific, might be convergent evolution but I've seen the same type of two more weeks joke on many software fora related to products that have a a when it done type release schedule. The specific ones that springs to mind is daimonim but others too....

_________________
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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 14:27:22
#256 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@paolone

I do not want to spoil the fun of the NG fans... I in a way use NG too (despite being on 68k)

but I think as TMHG wrote NG was never NG enough to really attract new people and too much NG for the 68k community... I personal add it is (for the reasons I wrote) too late for a really modernized and heavily changed amiga based OS because there are almost no developers left who would write the needed software. In this sense lifting the 68k hardware base makes much more sense (and fun) to me.

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Overflow 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 14:41:23
#257 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Well, if memory doesnt completely fail me, I belive Trevor has said that his X1000 was designed for him having the best expirience for AOS4 he could get, given it being based on PPC.
Up thru the years, unlike others, I have never gotten the impression that Trevor has tried to misrepresent what X1000 (5000) would face with regards to developing pace given it has a limited developerbase. Personally I think people take the vision Aeon had, and ran amok with it, inflating the expecations far beyond what Trevor ever has promised. Some might think he should have expected that, but I dont think so. If you are always worried what the fringe might think, you will be paralyzed.

I agree with you 100% that with the recent Vampire developments, the WB3.x crowd is getting a second wind.

Copy paste from IRC;

Quote:
IanP> hi igor, how is V600 production going?
majsta> nicely
majsta> today got 50 more PCB


Obviously quite the demand, and I have no idea how Igor and kipper is able to summon strenght to develop at this pace.
Hopefully it will inspire people to make enhancements/tweaks to current programs, including Workbench packages like AmiKit, BetterWB, BoingBag etc.

Last edited by Overflow on 03-Feb-2016 at 02:54 PM.
Last edited by Overflow on 03-Feb-2016 at 02:43 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 16:02:40
#258 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@Overflow

I try to avoid the topic X1000 where possible

there was some hype around X1000 when I remember right like calling Xena "custom chips" and that created wild speculations around it like it being a kind of programmable super FPGA that could emulate AGA chips and similar... I cannot remember who started with it, if there was a press release using that phrase or just phantasy of some users going wild. But that is now history.

Regarding FPGA I think that it best serves existing needs to get affordable upgraded amiga hardware and because most software is 68k and never was or will be ported (because written in asm, because no sources there and developers long left the platform) and here I do not only speak about old games or applications but expecially about tons of all sort of compilers (partly freeware, partly former commercial) and lots of includes and libraries that were partly years in development (like some game libraries). The rest has to be seen, if there are developers really use the improved hardware base. But at least the chance is there. I see no chance for anything like that when a OS runs on different ISA how fast it might be there. Aros X86 is a good example but the situation on MorphOS or AmigaOS is not that much better when people are dependent on native appölications.

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iggy 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 17:23:32
#259 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@paolone

Quote:
The only problem for any Amiga (NG or whatever) related project are numbers.


Cost and complexity are high.
My PCB manufacturer in China (Ting River PCB) originally thought they could handle the board, but when I sent them the files for a similar Freescale reference board they immediately referenced me to another (larger) company.
Since I can't afford to travel to China, I didn't feel comfortable having the boards populated there.
so I contacted a Pennsylvania firm I worked with decades ago.
I paid $1300 for a upgraded Cadence design package.
I negotiated for the files I would need from Freescale.

Then I contacted Bill Buck at Genesi.
He said that he would look into the idea, but wanted to use his own engineers (he had to specific individuals in mind) AND he still had access to production facilities.

As I have stated, Freescale actively tried to dissuade him from using PPCs instead of ARM products.

So, everything is on hold.

The T2080 option is dead. In order for that to be useful we need SMP (otherwise it would be slightly slower than the X5000).
The PCIe plug in option is also dead (too complex - it would need to work in both passive backplanes and as a peripheral).

The original T1022/T1042 sbc still hold some attraction for me, and two prototypes may still be assembled.

BUT, production just isn't happening.
I won't ask for prepayment.
And the cost of assembling 50 of these is incredibly high.

Again, sorry, but I really believe that the current shift in focus makes sense.
68K has MUCH more software.
MorphOS is eventually mutating into something more than NG.
And the glacial pace of OS4 development, combined with the fact that Tabor will represent a significant drop in performance (from the last two systems Aeon released) does not bode well for the OS4 community.

The X5000 will be a neat system guys.
Probably the best PPC system that will ever be released for our community.
And it could stay in production for a few years.

But I'm not dense, this is the closing years of our ability to use this ISA.
Time to move on.

And the 68K will outlive all of this (and still be in production) after the dust settles.

Jim

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 3-Feb-2016 17:34:29
#260 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@iggy

"As I have stated, Freescale actively tried to dissuade him from using PPCs instead of ARM products."

Interesting comment... exactly what I wrote already

Freescale was bought by a bigger company and both are concentrating on ARM

current PPC designs will be produced as long as it is profitable but that is it. Last PPC producer (except IBM) is leaving the market

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