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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
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PosterThread
Tomppeli 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 13:52:33
#441 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1643
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@PR

Quote:
See You at Hämeenlinna

Have I missed some news. What is in Hämeenlinna ?

You sound being proud of your sports car always. May I ask how much it consumes fuel compared to a new family car ? (I could also ask for a number of speeding tickets.)

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. Amiga. Never forget.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 13:53:29
#442 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@amigakit

if you look at the market it should be the other way round

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 14:25:01
#443 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1139
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

Quote:

Tomppeli wrote:
Quote:
there is no official os3. x development

What a silly comment. Of course there's official development of AmigaOS 3. There have been so much development over the years that the development team decided to increment the release number from 3 to 4 !


The Workbench Operating System ("Workbench" being the proper name of the 68k OS for Amiga computers that today erroneously are referred to as "AmigaOS 3.x") is a completely different product than AmigaOS (4.x), that has different features, runs on different H/W, different requirements, a different target audience, and sold by different publisher using a different trademark and product name.

Workbench still exists, it's being sold by Cloanto as new today, in various versions, shapes and forms. The latest version ("3.X") is about on par with "3.9" feature wise, but it's newer than "3.9" and contains some OS components with higher version numbers than "3.9" ever had.

The "NG" OS's (OS4/AROS/MorphOS) is something different. OS4 can at best be considered a fork that started off with a re-write to bring the 3.1 API to PC-like PPC H/W and continued from there, turning into something else. Very much alike AROS and MorphOS.

Many people are still interested in Amiga/Workbench (the 68k computers from the 80's/90's that brought us here in the first place) but couldn't care less about the OS4 route, and some peoples (you for example) persistent suggestions that OS4 would be "the evolution", that 68k users should "upgrade" etc, is actually quite offensive to all those people interested in Amiga, not caring about your OS4 and insane PPC H/W. Please understand that!

"68k" and "NG" is two different things. Both deserves to be here, both deserves respect.

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Chris_Y 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 14:33:27
#444 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3166
From: Beds, UK

@TRIPOS

Quote:

The Workbench Operating System ("Workbench" being the proper name of the 68k OS for Amiga computers that today erroneously are referred to as "AmigaOS 3.x")


Technically Workbench is just the file launcher, and Commodore used it to refer to the disks too. If you're being picky, OS3.x was called Kickstart/Workbench 3.x by Commodore, and IIRC also referred to the "The Amiga Operating System", which can be conveniently shortened to AmigaOS.

I dispute the other stuff about it being a completely different product too, but can't really be bothered to argue about it.

Last edited by Chris_Y on 15-Feb-2016 at 02:33 PM.

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"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 14:52:07
#445 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1139
From: Unknown

@IntuitionAmiga

Quote:

IntuitionAmiga wrote:
@Trixie

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=803863&postcount=82


They have already packaged and sold an updated Workbench 3.1 ("3.2" if you like, but it's called 3.1 nevertheless), stand-alone, completely separate of any emulator package. Been there, done that!

When it comes to "3.9", they have spent time to create a match as close as possible and has component-by-component covered it with licenses on their own, step by step, often even using parallel licenses directly with the programmers to be extra safe. They don't call it "3.9" though. "3.X" has been their constant name of their OS package that has been growing and evolving over the years. In that sense, the "x" in the version number has been like a mathematical variable. A moving target. Today it is practically what 3.9 was (minus a few components, but with others extended, some OS components even having higher version numbers than H&P's 3.9 package ever had, and then there is extra S/W as well on top of it). Note that "3.X" contains a capital X. This is like a play of words IMHO, on the one hand the "x" could be seen as a variable, but the capital X could also be read as the roman number "10", hence "Workbench 3.10".

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 15:00:32
#446 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1139
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote:

If you're being picky


It has nothing at all to do with being "picky".

Workbench is the trademark used by Cloanto to market everything from version 1.0 to version 3.X of their OS. It's as simple as that. They couldn't call it "AmigaOS" even if they wanted to. Today, the only product being published as new using the "AmigaOS" mark is Hyperion's OS4. Two different things, two different names.

This is a fact, as simple as that. Deal with it!

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Chain-Q 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 15:22:05
#447 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 821
From: Budapest, Hungary

@TRIPOS
Quote:
("Workbench" being the proper name of the 68k OS for Amiga computers that today erroneously are referred to as "AmigaOS 3.x")

I'm just going to leave this here, straight from 1994 (click to enlarge):


_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 15:26:06
#448 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
The Workbench Operating System


Phrase not found on Cloanto websites...

Quote:
The latest version ("3.X") is about on par with "3.9" feature wise


Where is AmiDock?


Quote:
OS4 can at best be considered a fork


Interesting enough, here we both agree - although our points of view are entirelly different. OS3.5/3.9 from Haage/Partner, "Workbench" from Cloanto and AmigaOS 4 from Hyperion are forks of the same operating system.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:18:12
#449 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@pavlor

but if picky all inherit from reworked sources and not the original commodore sources

so the pictures showing a straight line from 3.1. to 4.X are not exact

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:19:53
#450 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1139
From: Unknown

@Chain-Q

I homestly don't know what you tried to say with that post, but it certainly didn't contradict anything I said. Hint: keyword is "today".

Today Cloanto sells:
Workbench 1.0
Workbench 1.1
Workbench 1.2
Workbench 1.3 (Also sold separately of the emulation package, for real Amigas, with minor updates)
Workbench 2.0
Workbench 2.04
Workbench 2.05
Workbench 2.1 (Also sold separately of the emulation package, for real Amigas, with minor updates)
Workbench 3.0
Workbench 3.1 (Also sold separately of the emulation package, also in physical media, for real Amigas, with a few significant updates)
Workbench 3.X (The latest and most developed, AFAIK currently only available through the Amiga Forever 6 emulation package)

These are real, live products. Today, not in history.

They couldn't sell it as "AmigaOS" even if they wanted to. But they have the "Workbench" trade mark registered, there are web pages at Cloanto's website explaining this, and why they explicitly are not using the term "AmigaOS" to reference it, which is why you will see the "Workbench" name in their product pages and nothing else.

Again, the only published product today using the "AmigaOS" mark, is Hyperion's OS4, and this is something different, for different hardware, targeting a different audience. The real OS for the real Amiga computers is Workbench and nothing else.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:20:59
#451 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@Chain-Q

the old debate

if I remember right Amiga OS was not used (at least not officially) before the post-Commodore area, for most people Amiga is connected with Kickstart and Workbench but not Amiga OS

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:21:37
#452 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
but if picky all inherit from reworked sources and not the original commodore sources


I wonder on what sourcers were these "reworked sources" based...

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:23:41
#453 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Today Cloanto sells:


AmigaOS 4.1 FE

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:27:51
#454 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
if I remember right Amiga OS was not used (at least not officially) before the post-Commodore area


True - not on English marketing material or documentation (other markets may differ: eg. term Amiga OS was used in some German Commodore manuals). However, its use by Commodore/Amiga OS developers and engineers was common since early Amiga days, as they had no "official" term for entire OS.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:36:58
#455 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@pavlor

because of that I wrote "not officially used"

I have a "Amiga OS" manual at home too, printed 1997

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:38:26
#456 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@pavlor

of course on the old commodore sources from 1994 I assume but still:

3.1.(1994) not equal 3.1.(1997)

Last edited by OlafS25 on 15-Feb-2016 at 04:39 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 15-Feb-2016 at 04:38 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:42:15
#457 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
3.1.(1994) not equal 3.1.(1997)


At that time, developed OS fork started to be called 3.5 of course...

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:42:58
#458 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
because of that I wrote "not officially used"


I meant official documentation by Commodore.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:45:17
#459 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 821
From: Budapest, Hungary

@pavlor
Quote:
However, its use by Commodore/Amiga OS developers and engineers was common since early Amiga days, as they had no "official" term for entire OS.

Actually, the original Amiga ROM Kernel Manual (from 1986, by Rob Peck), refers the entire OS as "System Software" or "ROM Kernel" and states "Workbench is an application and also a screen"... So, yeah.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

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Chain-Q 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 16:55:20
#460 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 821
From: Budapest, Hungary

@TRIPOS
Quote:
I homestly don't know what you tried to say with that post, but it certainly didn't contradict anything I said. Hint: keyword is "today".

Hehe:

Quote:
The Workbench Operating System ("Workbench" being the proper name of the 68k OS for Amiga computers that today erroneously are referred to as "AmigaOS 3.x") (...) Workbench still exists, it's being sold by Cloanto as new today, in various versions, shapes and forms.

Yeah, "today" is clearly the keyword there, not the fact that you tried to imply whatever crap Cloanto sells these days is the only "legit" continuation, because the "Workbench" name... Whatever.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

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