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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
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PosterThread
Phantom 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:02:17
#461 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

From the 3rd edition of Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual:

Quote:
Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Amiga 500, Amiga 1000, Amiga 2000, Amiga 3000, AmigaDOS, Amiga Workbench, and Amiga Kickstart are trademarks of Commodore-Amiga, Inc.


Hold on! I guess AmigaDOS is different than AmigaOS right?

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:10:33
#462 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
The Workbench Operating System


Phrase not found on Cloanto websites...


But this is what it is, and you will see why by reading the Cloanto website. The OS they sell is called Workbench, that's the name they are using, for all versions. They explicitly do not sell it as AmigaOS. When you reference to a product as "AmigaOS" today, it can only be Hyperion's OS4 for PPC H/W. The original OS for real Amigas is called Workbench, whatever version number you are looking for.

Quote:
Quote:
The latest version ("3.X") is about on par with "3.9" feature wise


Where is AmiDock?


What does it matter? If you hadn't left out essential parts of my post in your quote, it had been obvious you aren't contradicting anything I said: "Today it is practically what 3.9 was (minus a few components, but with others extended, some OS components even having higher version numbers than H&P's 3.9 package ever had, and then there is extra S/W as well on top of it)."

Besides, I'm pretty sure there was a dock in Workbench 3.X the last time I checked.

Quote:
Quote:
OS4 can at best be considered a fork


Interesting enough, here we both agree - although our points of view are entirelly different. OS3.5/3.9 from Haage/Partner, "Workbench" from Cloanto and AmigaOS 4 from Hyperion are forks of the same operating system.


H&P's stuff turned out to be merely a parenthesis in history, a detour, something published by a third party for a limited period of time, and that's that. Redundant with the 3.X. Pretty much, at least. Dead for ages, locked down by impossible license situations. So forget about that one. The direct descendant from 3.1 is 3.X, that is how the formal and direct lineage for real Amigas turned out to be today! Any potential further development of the OS will evolve from that one.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:28:08
#463 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@Chain-Q, OlafS25, pavlor

What's the point with your "I have seen this from 1994", "I have seen that from 1997" and whatever? Hasn't that been discussed to death already? What does it matter now?


Quote:

Chain-Q wrote:

Yeah, "today" is clearly the keyword there, not the fact that you tried to imply whatever crap Cloanto sells these days is the only "legit" continuation, because the "Workbench" name... Whatever.


"Tried to imply"?! Heh. It's the only legit one, not because these discussions (by me or anyone else) in a web forum, no, it's because Cloanto is the legit owner. They own the OS, couldn't be more legit than that! Today! And they are not selling their products under the "AmigaOS" name. They are using "Workbench". Which is their registered trademark. For this purpose. Today. And probably tomorrow as well. All versions. Updated or not.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:31:06
#464 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
But this is what it is, and you will see why by reading the Cloanto website.


Check again. "Workbench Operating System" not found.

Quote:
What does it matter?


Most visible OS3.9 component? Used in all later releases up to today?

Quote:
Besides, I'm pretty sure there was a dock in Workbench 3.X the last time I checked.


Did you use OS3.9(+) and 3.X to make real comparison? Of course not, what do I think.

Quote:
H&P's stuff turned out to be merely a parenthesis in history, a detour, something published by a third party for a limited period of time, and that's that.


What? You can call entire Amiga platform merely a parenthesis in history...

Quote:
The direct descendant from 3.1 is 3.X


And 4.1.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:34:25
#465 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
They own the OS,


More precise its parts up to 1994 with some components from newer releases.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:41:45
#466 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@Phantom

Quote:

Phantom wrote:
From the 3rd edition of Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual:

Quote:
Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Amiga 500, Amiga 1000, Amiga 2000, Amiga 3000, AmigaDOS, Amiga Workbench, and Amiga Kickstart are trademarks of Commodore-Amiga, Inc.


Hold on! I guess AmigaDOS is different than AmigaOS right?



In what way does those old references matter in this discussion today?



Some old trade marks expired, some has new owners, some are used today, some are not.

Funny thing is though, that Cloanto could actually (if they wanted) make a new edition of that book, with all these old names replaced by ones that are actually correct and used today, since they are the legit owners of not only the Operating System, but of that book as well (and many others)...


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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:47:13
#467 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
They own the OS,


More precise its parts up to 1994 with some components from newer releases.


That's what I said. They own the OS. And Workbench 3.X is the latest version of it, but all versions back to Workbench 1.0 are actually available, Workbench 1.3, 2.1 and 3.1 is even available in updated stand-alone versions in various media...

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 17:55:01
#468 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
They own the OS


Quite old OS versions...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 18:05:55
#469 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
They own the OS


Quite old OS versions...


Yes, from the oldest one, but also the newest version in existence still published and marketed for Amiga computers!

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 18:07:32
#470 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Yes, from the oldest one, but also the newest version in existence still published and marketed for Amiga computers!


V40/44/45 hybrid newest? I have some V54 components on my computer.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 18:22:57
#471 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
Quote:
The direct descendant from 3.1 is 3.X


And 4.1.


No, AmigaOS 4.1 can at best be considered a fork, published by a different entity, for a different computer platform, for a different market/audience, using a different trade mark. It exists in parallel to Cloanto's Workbench 3.X, it never replaced it. Workbench 3.X however, is for real Amiga computers, published by the owner of the OS (not a third party contractor or other entity), it's the direct lineage, it's the newest version, and the only version thinkable for anyone hoping for updated versions of the OS for any kind of upcoming Amiga H/W projects (Amiga meaning "68k" of course, since AmigaOS(4) is strictly for AmigaOne H/W (and PowerUP)).

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 18:31:26
#472 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
Yes, from the oldest one, but also the newest version in existence still published and marketed for Amiga computers!


V40/44/45 hybrid newest? I have some V54 components on my computer.


MorphOS and AROS has also their own parallel versioning systems you know, I bet I have even higher versions than you on my computer...

But AmigaOS4, AROS and MorphOS is "NG", which is not really relevant in terms of Amiga ("68k"), thus not really of interest to everyone here, you must try to understand this. OS4 is a parallel project, not a general upgrade to Amiga users. Please respect that!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 18:37:29
#473 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11868
From: Norway

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Not a general upgrade to Amiga users.


AmigaONE is upgrade to Amiga, software can never be upgrade to hardware, so we respect that

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Feb-2016 at 06:37 PM.

_________________
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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:12:35
#474 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
AmigaONE is upgrade to Amiga


In the same way as an Atari ST was an upgrade to a C64, and a Wintel PC was an upgrade to the Amiga, and an X-box was an upgrade to a PlayStation 1.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:20:45
#475 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11868
From: Norway

@TRIPOS

Nothing wrong with that

_________________
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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:38:26
#476 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
published by a different entity, for a different computer platform, for a different market/audience, using a different trade mark


True.

Quote:
It exists in parallel to Cloanto's Workbench 3.X,


Sure.

Quote:
it never replaced it.


Of course.

Quote:
Workbench 3.X however, is for real Amiga computers


Workbench 3.X is enviroment targeted at emulation users, not for classic Amiga computers (at least not yet). This OS fork started in late 1990s with OS3.0 (as in 1997 news release) as basis and evolved and expanded in later years into 3.X enviroment we know now. It was marketed in parallel to Amiga OS 3.1, 3.5, 3.9 and 4.x released for actual computers.

Quote:
it's the direct lineage


To 3.1 of course. Relation to 3.5/3.9 releases is less direct.

Quote:
it's the newest version


May I list (again) components in 3.X older than in 3.9BB2?

Quote:
and the only version thinkable for anyone hoping for updated versions of the OS for any kind of upcoming Amiga H/W projects


Nonesense. Legal constraints aside, every developement (except small patches like in recent Kickstart/WB from Cloanto) requires resources and developers. Most skilled 68k developers are now in AROS, MorphOS or 4.x camps (or left platform alltogether). 3.x fork is effectively dead.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:40:11
#477 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
MorphOS and AROS has also their own parallel versioning systems you know, I bet I have even higher versions than you on my computer...


MorphOS and AROS aren´t based on OS3.x source code.

Quote:
OS4 is a parallel project, not a general upgrade to Amiga users


True. General upgrade should be AmigaDE!

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:43:26
#478 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
In the same way as an Atari ST was an upgrade to a C64, and a Wintel PC was an upgrade to the Amiga, and an X-box was an upgrade to a PlayStation 1.


we have spent considerable time and resources in creating a strategy that will see the Amiga desktop platform move back into the mainstream and take its proper place in the market. The AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 are just the first and most visible signs of this strategy.

Bill McEwen, CEO Amiga.Inc, April 12th, 2002.

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IntuitionAmiga 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:49:26
#479 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Sep-2013
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
3.x fork is effectively dead.


Not according to Thomas Richter. (See my previous post) ;)

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 19:59:44
#480 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@IntuitionAmiga

Quote:
Not according to Thomas Richter. (See my previous post) ;)


I read his posts on Amiga.org and still wonder, where are these skilled OS3.x developers. My only advice to 68k crowd: stick with current 3.x, don´t demand messy unproven new build and - if you want more - support AROS.

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