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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 20:14:40
#481 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
I read his posts on Amiga.org and still wonder, where are these skilled OS3.x developers. My only advice to 68k crowd: stick with current 3.x, don´t demand messy unproven new build and - if you want more - support AROS.


actually i agree on almost all of this. considering developers, there arent many on any of our alternative platforms, usually a hand full of skilled people on each shows up. however judging by the number of aminet contributions still the biggest fraction remains reserved for genuine amiga scene. even though it doesnt seem these people would like to get involved with os improvements themselves.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 20:39:26
#482 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@TRIPOS

Nothing wrong with that


Some would see it as platform migration rather than upgrading. Those who considers going from Amiga 500 to Amiga 4000 as an upgrade, those who considers Jens Schönfeldts Amiga Reloaded as an upgrade, or Vampire CPU cards, or some potential FPGA upgraded custom chips, those are the ones interested in Cloanto's Workbench (besides the Emulation users of course), and Hyperion's AmigaOs 4 for AmigaOne is totally irrelevant to them.

Personally I'm more interested in "Next Generation" myself, but that doesn't make me look at traditional Amigans as backwards or saying to them that they need to "upgrade" to the "latest version", when that version in fact is a different game altogether, a migration more than an upgrade. IMHO this is disrespectful. If they have fun with their machines, then power to them!

Workbench for Amiga is a real, live product. AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS for AmigaOne exists in parallel but are different products than the Amiga/Workbench a certain group of Amigans are interested in. I feel that many people here doesn't realise this, and that they are actually showing some disrespect towards the "real" Amiga in some postings here. There is a majority of Amigans (Amiga 68k users, AROS users and MorphOS users) who simply don't consider Hyperions OS4 for mediocre $3000 AmigaOne machines as THE upgrade path.

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IntuitionAmiga 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 21:32:21
#483 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Sep-2013
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I agree that supporting AROS68K would be best but I'll wait and see what transpires from Thomas' hints.

If an official upgrade (Workbench 3.11 for example) is released and has some components that are useful then I'll just copy those bits over to my trusty 3.9 installations. :)

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 21:41:18
#484 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@IntuitionAmiga

alas. some minor contributions, like layers update is pretty much all you can expect.

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Overflow 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 22:10:44
#485 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

I havent chimed in on the EAB vote thread regarding OS3.1 or AROS.

Kneejerk reaction says OS 3.x, but with the muddy waters regarding lisencing, development and future landmines x years, Ive started leaning towards AROS since its Opensource.
Personally Im in favour of developers getting paid, but if progress stalls cause of it, then its a moot point.
If ApolloTeam has to foot a big bill without knowing how many boards they stand to sell, its a major financial risk for them.

Dualboot would solve that, but wether or not thats realistic or desirable from a designpoint of view...?

Whatever Vampire lands on, it will mean a surge (in current amiga terms) in activity since we will have many more classic "power" users.

Last edited by Overflow on 15-Feb-2016 at 10:12 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 23:09:05
#486 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@IntuitionAmiga

I personal do not think that Hyperion has any interest in 3.X except seeing 68k users as potential PPC hardware buyers, it seems that they do not understand that people have decided for themselves not to "upgrade" how people here call it. So I would not have too much hope to get a upgrade for 3.X.

I also read the comments from Thomas Richter regarding 3.X and P96. All nice and well but for what do people pay then, for the binaries? And what if Hyperion decides that they do not want further upgrades and want more and more money...

As Pavlor says use what you have on 3.X even if it is heavy patched or support Aros.

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IntuitionAmiga 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 15-Feb-2016 23:22:15
#487 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Sep-2013
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
I personal do not think that Hyperion has any interest in 3.X except seeing 68k users as potential PPC hardware buyers, it seems that they do not understand that people have decided for themselves not to "upgrade" how people here call it. So I would not have too much hope to get a upgrade for 3.X.


Any official upgrade will come from the owners of the OS, not Hyperion.

Quote:
I also read the comments from Thomas Richter regarding 3.X and P96. All nice and well but for what do people pay then, for the binaries? And what if Hyperion decides that they do not want further upgrades and want more and more money...


Hyperion don't own P96 either.

Quote:
As Pavlor says use what you have on 3.X even if it is heavy patched or support Aros.


I'll buy a new version of the OS if it's significantly improved over 3.9 with BB4 and the rest of the patches and hacks I currently use. Otherwise i'll keep on using what i've got and occasionally playing with AROS on my real Amigas. :)

Last edited by IntuitionAmiga on 15-Feb-2016 at 11:22 PM.

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PR 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 0:34:46
#488 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1948
From: Suomi-Finland

@Tomppeli

Proud of the Amiga,Music and car hobby. It consumes as much as You put gaso in the tank and pedal to the medal. Sorry about these hobbies, I promote Amiga in the Corvettesites back. (FinnShark etc)

There is a gig at Hämeenlinna. You should see this video for a joke, only for Finnish people, You know, the best country in the world.. Now PRomoting Finland too. Must in work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewThpbfjr78


As Lemmy died, I have only the ad from Valio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfgycAOT0KI

and then the band still alive:

http://www.livenation.fi/show/780841/iron-maiden-the-book-of-souls-world-tour/Hämeenlinna/2016-06-29/fi

Very OffTopic but keep it comming until the new OS.

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Zylesea 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 1:00:52
#489 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2209
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@IntuitionAmiga

Quote:



(Workbench 3.11 for example)


Nasty one! If a tcp/ip stack is included they should call it "3.11 for workgroups"...

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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cha05e90 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 9:23:35
#490 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany

@wawa

Quote:
alas. some minor contributions, like layers update is pretty much all you can expect.

Further it all depends on POV, as always. First the upgrade to layers.library is more or less somewhat like a backport from OS Release >4.0 (if I understood Thor correctly). Second I consider this as an upgrade to AmigaOS 3.9 BB2. Except some minor stuff the Cloanto AmigaOS 3.X doesn't gain really much compared to AmigaOS 3.9 BB2 - for me it's still some kind of a step backwards.

Most of the mentioned improvements are part of the unofficial BoingBags 3 and 4 - which I don't use. I only installed some updates from the original AmigaOS 3.9 contributors (like Thor and some other - I call it "AmigaOS3.9 BB2+" ).

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 9:29:15
#491 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

the basic problem with all this "official" updating of 3.X stuff is that you are dependent on parties that have different interests than you. For Hyperion it is obvious that they are only interested in 4.X and PPC so if 3.X would be upgraded "too much" it might be against their interests (at least in the thinking). So clearly a open platform is the only way to go for me.

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cha05e90 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 9:35:19
#492 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany

@OlafS25

Quote:
upgraded "too much" it might be against their interests

Might be or not. The layers.library example shows that this is not always the case. If they still consider emulation *not* as a target market and they think the Blizzard/CyberstormPPC-upgraded Amiga users aren't the most important customers, they won't be harmed from a "AmigaOS 3.10". But who knows...

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 9:41:34
#493 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

making any development dependent on the "generosity"?

I do not think that this is a good idea for longterm development

3.X would be not only useful for emulation but there is also new hardware hitting the market. And that can be seen as threat or chance.

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Yasu 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 10:52:09
#494 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2015
Posts: 224
From: Stockholm, Sweden

I think it's safe to assume that Cloantos interest lies in the retro market. So they have no interest in upgrading the OS (except for some necessary patches) for two reasons:

1. They already have a complete product as it is (i.e. they don't need to invest any money).
2. Make too many changes and they might lose their market.

You could also add a

2.5. Make too many changes and people are gonna bitch about it at Amigaworld, no matter what changes Cloanto have made. "Not enough changes", "too many changes", "not the kind of changes I wanted", take your pick.

Not doing anything can thus be seen as a preemtive damage control.

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 12:37:05
#495 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

Quote:

cha05e90 wrote:
@OlafS25

Quote:
upgraded "too much" it might be against their interests

Might be or not. The layers.library example shows that this is not always the case. If they still consider emulation *not* as a target market and they think the Blizzard/CyberstormPPC-upgraded Amiga users aren't the most important customers, they won't be harmed from a "AmigaOS 3.10". But who knows...


the layers lib was an initative by autor and maintainer, where they hardly could say no, without looking uncoorperative again, so as it wasnt so important as such they have interestingly enough chosen lesser evil and went along.

in general, i think discussing these issues and making demands (on forums) is wasted time. the decisions should be respected, whatever they are. there is no influence to be taken, where there is stubborn refusal for years. who doesnt agrees with the course should move on. who doesnt move on must accept the course.

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Tomppeli 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 13:06:31
#496 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1643
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@PR

You meant Iron Maiden. I thought you meant an Amiga meeting. I'm not that interested in metal bands.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. Amiga. Never forget.
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 15:31:29
#497 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

Quote:

cha05e90 wrote:

Except some minor stuff the Cloanto AmigaOS 3.X doesn't gain really much compared to AmigaOS 3.9 BB2 - for me it's still some kind of a step backwards.


OS3.9 is a locked down dead-end. Due to impossible license situations (and even revoked rights from the IP owner a very, very long time ago) it can't go anywhere. It won't be fixed or improved, it won't be publlished again. Ever. Not very "forward" in my books...

Quote:
I call it "AmigaOS3.9 BB2+"


That makes sense IMHO since that was its name. But it was so long ago, and it's been revoked for so long, that its name doesn't really matter today. Besides occasional left-over copies at occasional Amiga dealers still alive, it will never become a published product ever again.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 15:49:45
#498 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1136
From: Unknown

@Yasu

I think you are correct in everything you say. The thought of "evolution" of Amiga/Workbench is in direct conflict to the retro character of the platform (which is what people supporting this wants). It's like saying "I want it old and unchanged, but modern and improved". "I want it black, but white".

That's why NG emerged emerged in the first place, to leave the old and limited 68k world, to make Amiga modern.

Only problem is that the NG turned out to be "neither old and unchanged, nor modern and improved". "Neither black, nor white". It became stuck in the middle, tied to the sinking wreck of PPC.

Maybe the upcoming next generation MorphOS can change this? "Not old and unchanged, instead modern and improved". "No longer black, instead white." Or perhaps more correctly: "Blue"!

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 16:34:32
#499 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

it will be a nice "tech demo" for sure

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cha05e90 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 16-Feb-2016 16:55:00
#500 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Besides occasional left-over copies at occasional Amiga dealers still alive, it will never become a published product ever again.

Ahem - no. You can buy new copies of AmigaOS 3.9 CDs at your favorite Amiga dealer anytime, and no, there's no shortage in supply.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

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