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      /  Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
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PosterThread
sundown 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 21-Mar-2016 18:36:04
#61 ]
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Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5112
From: Right here...

@OlafS25

Quote:
AmigaOS supports more than one core?

Linux on the x1000 used both cores, I see no reason why the Tabor wouldn't as well, os4 does not.

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Niolator 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 21-Mar-2016 19:05:11
#62 ]
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Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1406
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

OK, thanks for the clarification.

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Spectre660 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 21-Mar-2016 20:06:28
#63 ]
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Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3743
From: Unknown

The only problem areas that I have thus far encountered with FPU emulation under Linux powerpc32 distributions are with video playback not working and Firefox/Iceweasel not working.
Other browsers, Midori and Qupzilla work with no problems.
Ubuntu LXDE 12.04 powerpc32 performs quite well even with the FPU emulation which is handled by the Linux Kernel.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 21-Mar-2016 at 08:07 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 21-Mar-2016 at 08:06 PM.

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Spectre660 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 21-Mar-2016 22:09:04
#64 ]
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Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3743
From: Unknown

root@Tabor:/home/julian# ls /sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/*
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/dcba
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/dcbz
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/do_warn
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/fp_pair
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/isel
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/math
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/mcrxr
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/mfpvr
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/multiple
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/popcntb
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/spe
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/string
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/sync
/sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/unaligned
root@Tabor:/home/julian# cat /sys/kernel/debug/powerpc/emulated_instructions/*
0
72191
0
0
0
1704594590
0
2652
0
0
0
88164
48327198
0

https://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2009-May/072122.html

Last edited by Spectre660 on 21-Mar-2016 at 10:29 PM.

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itix 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 22-Mar-2016 7:50:27
#65 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

Quote:

Test post from Tabor using Qupzilla webbrowser runing under Ubuntu Mate 16.04 regular powerpc32 version. So everything done using emulated floating point.

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KimmoK 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 22-Mar-2016 9:54:55
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5101
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@OlafS25

>AmigaOS supports more than one core?

Since AOS3.9, yes.
But only in AMP way.

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tlosm 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 22-Mar-2016 13:34:32
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2647
From: Amiga land

@Spectre660

the video on firefox dont work on g5 too is not an issue of the tabor but is a problem with the webm decoder in firefox, this because the player is tray to play rhe video at 0x0@30fps resolution.
a stupid bug but no one was fixed it :-/
do
about :config and disable all webm prefs.
the video will run but in mp4 version.

luigi

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Spectre660 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 22-Mar-2016 14:10:55
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3743
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Not the same issues.
These are due to Floating point emulation using the regular powerpc32 linux distributions.
Firefox/Iceweasel do not run at all .
Mplayer/MPV do not decode video at all .

These problems do not occur when using the special powepcSPE version of Debian,

Last edited by Spectre660 on 22-Mar-2016 at 02:21 PM.

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Tomppeli 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 22-Mar-2016 18:14:07
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1631
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@BSzili

Quote:
Don't pretend it's still the 90s. The community shrunk, and become fractured.

Ok.

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tlosm 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 6:13:43
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2647
From: Amiga land

@Spectre660

ah i understand,
in any way is an interesting info.

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Overflow 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 8:43:57
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1590
From: Norway

FPU aside;

With the new Warp3d Nova API, wont the Tabor system have a new breath of life, espesially if its cost is relativly low?

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OlafS25 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 9:17:47
#72 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5481
From: Unknown

@Overflow

why and how?

You need adapted software for it

Aros has full MESA/Gallium support for a long time, there are some opensource games ported but how many games are written for it specifically?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Mar-2016 at 09:20 AM.

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BSzili 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 10:13:00
#73 ]
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Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@Overflow

Sadly no, unless new software is written using Warp3D Nova, or A-Eon commissions someone to write an OpenGL implementation on top of it.

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Overflow 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 10:18:07
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1590
From: Norway

@BSzili

Yes, that was partly the premise of my comment, that software would be rewritten (or developed) to use Nova.
Then the question becomes, how much will Nova help the user expirience, but that all depends on the program etc.

The discussion of how many programs will be adapted is ofcourse intresting in itself.

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OlafS25 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 10:22:47
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5481
From: Unknown

@Overflow

it is supporting older MESA standard so I assume some older games can be ported more easily

Other than that you need specific written software. I doubt that there will be much. The same is on Aros even though supporting MESA/Gallium (I think even newest standards)

So from my point of view despite the hype arising again nothing really has changed.

More important would be to have modern development environments with class libraries in my view

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Mar-2016 at 10:24 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 10:34:39
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6160
From: Unknown

according to the news release daytona is working on a opengl 2 wrapper, which even if a 2004 standard gives initial shader support. thats definitely a bit more that what was available up till now. how much remains to be seen. what is clear: warp3d update as such wont matter much as there is almost no software pool using warp3d directly, and if there is it wont gain much if anything of shader support. maybe rather by offloading geometric calculations to gpu. so some sort of opengl or mesa wrapper, even if basic such as minigl or tinygl, is a must, but how much features it will pass through is another matter. certainly a low computing power devices, especially those fpu crippled, will gain less than a full blown systems, especially that full blown opengl apps expect an appropriate computing power.

Last edited by wawa on 23-Mar-2016 at 10:35 AM.

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BSzili 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 10:46:04
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@wawa

They are working on an OpenGL ES2 wrapper, which is still the dominant standard on mobile devices. It's roughly equivalent to OpenGL 3 on desktop, with some extensions.
You are right about software using warp3d directly, which didn't happen that often as users would think, and that was before the schism.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 13:34:31
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11061
From: Norway

@Overflow

No..

FPU is different from GPU stuff.
There is no way that make sense, your suggestion of using the GPU to replace the FPU is silly.

First of all the GPU lives on other island, with large lake in-between that is called the PCIe bus, crossing that PCIe lake takes time, because there boats that send packages to island is slow, so need to understand that native language on the GPU island is different from the language of spoken in the FPU town. So need to interpreter to translate what going to be done, and then you need send the result of small boats on PCIe bus, to that program can pick up from where it left off.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Mar-2016 at 01:34 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 13:54:20
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6160
From: Unknown

@BSzili

Quote:

They are working on an OpenGL ES2 wrapper

i stand corrected. i trust the wrapper implementation is certainly a good thing being in hands of daytona, even if i still wonder why put the amount of work inot an obsolete and orthodox library if it could be implemented in more direct way. then again its certainly some good news for os4 catching up a bit with morphos and aros, even though the applications taking advantage of it remain to be ported yet as it looks like.

Last edited by wawa on 23-Mar-2016 at 01:55 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it.
Posted on 23-Mar-2016 14:00:34
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1590
From: Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga



Well, it wasnt about FPU being emulated/replaced by GPU.

It was more about Nova improving (on software that supports Nova) will improve the overall performance of the userexpirience dramatically VS non-nova supported software.

I guess what Im asking about is the direct impact performancewise of Tabor with or without Nova.

Last edited by Overflow on 23-Mar-2016 at 02:20 PM.

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