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      /  Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
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PosterThread
Niolator 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 20:12:46
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1420
From: Unknown

Who cares if they run AmigaOS on PowerPC or not. They could run it on an extra terrestrial CPU for what I care. If it feels like an Amiga it is an Amiga according to me.


ps. As an Amiga user from the old days I admit it is with great reluctance that I would accept an x86 Amiga.

Last edited by Niolator on 31-May-2016 at 08:13 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 20:21:11
#22 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6621
From: UK

@Niolator

Quote:
ps. As an Amiga user from the old days I admit it is with great reluctance that I would accept an x86 Amiga.


If the move brought improved speed or features and didn't break back compatibility then fine, but it will affect back compatibility and we'd have to pay through the nose for the work required to port AmigaOS over. All in all it's probably not worth it. Just make AmigaOS run the Raspberry Pi and get new users interested!

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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 20:27:23
#23 ]
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Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 794
From: The Interrogative Lair

@kamelit0

Awesome! I just have to find deck material that will fit the tiny truck bed.

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I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 20:41:10
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1330
From: CRO

@BigD

Quote:
If the move brought improved speed or features and didn't break back compatibility then fine, but it will affect back compatibility and we'd have to pay through the nose for the work required to port AmigaOS over. All in all it's probably not worth it. Just make AmigaOS run the Raspberry Pi and get new users interested!


It would cost the same to port to either x86-32/64 or ARM, but x86 has a huge advantage on available HW to run and is not fragmented as ARM is(most ARM SoCs do not have any public documentation, there are various versions of the ISA that are not fully compatible and so on).
But to me it seems as Hyperion's OS is dead in the watter anyway. MorphOS will be available on x86 eventually and AROS is already there.

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iggy 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 21:23:17
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Niolator

PPC actually has the advantage of being big endian.
Far less complication porting legacy code to these cpus.

And they are not Intel, which to me is one big advantage.

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iggy 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 21:26:12
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@PhantomInterrogative

Datsun 620?
I had a soft spot for that series of engines in that too.
From the aluminum 1.6 to the 2.0 in my 610 and on.

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ExiE 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 21:32:06
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@BigD

Quote:
If the move brought improved speed or features and didn't break back compatibility then fine, but it will affect back compatibility and we'd have to pay through the nose for the work required to port AmigaOS over. All in all it's probably not worth it. Just make AmigaOS run the Raspberry Pi and get new users interested!


Apple showed TWICE that backward compatibility is not a problem, with more power, emulating old hardware in sandbox is a peace of cake (well is possible).
We would be fine with just 68k emulator. PPC software (beside OS itself) could be ported to new platform to run native coz most authors of such software still hang around...

Last edited by ExiE on 31-May-2016 at 09:32 PM.

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eliyahu 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 22:03:32
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1899
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@ExiE

Quote:
Apple showed TWICE that backward compatibility is not a problem, with more power, emulating old hardware in sandbox is a peace of cake (well is possible).

in fairness apple had legions of software engineers and massive amounts of cash to spend on both ISA transitions. hyperion has neither.

-- eliyahu

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BigD 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 31-May-2016 22:20:27
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6621
From: UK

@eliyahu

Quote:
in fairness apple had legions of software engineers and massive amounts of cash to spend on both ISA transitions. hyperion has neither.


Exactly! Let's enjoy the X5000 launch and leave discussions of porting to different architectures until other day (or thread ).

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iggy 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 0:28:22
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ExiE

Quote:
...a piece of cake


Hmm, slight exageration there.

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kamelito 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 5:47:37
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 795
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

They could remove AmigaOS 4.x classic limitation and use *UAE to run 68k and PPC.
Kamelito

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BSzili 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 5:56:16
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 444
From: Unknown

@ExiE

Sure, a piece of cake, if your whole IPC mechanism is not built around shared memory

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ExiE 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 7:45:43
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@BSzili
@iggy

guys I so knew you will post such comments so i wrote "is a piece of cake (well is possible)."

the first part was exaggerated and even more than slightly, the other part is reality

Last edited by ExiE on 01-Jun-2016 at 07:47 AM.
Last edited by ExiE on 01-Jun-2016 at 07:46 AM.

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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 11:57:17
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 794
From: The Interrogative Lair

@iggy

My dad had a 1974 Datsun 620 (1.6). He sold it in 1994. The only thing mechanical we ever had to do was clean the brushes on the alternator. Although it was a small truck, it could haul over a ton without any problems (more than what I presently need). I also like the 25 - 30 MPG of those old Datsun trucks. Most truck manufacturers today call 19 MPG efficient... yeah, right!

I like the 620 for nostalgia and for what it can still do. It is the same reason I still use Amigas, and look forward to things like the X5000, Amiga Reloaded, et al.

Last edited by PhantomInterrogative on 01-Jun-2016 at 11:59 AM.

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I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

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iggy 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 13:04:34
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@PhantomInterrogative

Would that someone sell us a small to mid-sized pickup with good fuel economy.
I was looking forward to Mahindra's diesel pickup, but that didn't happen.

The X5000 is going to happen, and it may be my last PPC based system. As it represents the best AmigaOne introduced so far, I'm excited.

Last edited by iggy on 01-Jun-2016 at 01:05 PM.

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Aslak3 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 20:09:33
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@eliyah

Quote:
in fairness apple had legions of software engineers and massive amounts of cash to spend on both ISA transitions. hyperion has neither.


That's a lame answer though. Amiga Corp had only 42 people working for it when it was sold to C=. NeXT had only about 500 people working for it and produced the ground work for OS X, server platforms, plus multiple desktop systems, all done in house AFAIK.

Whole OSes have been ported to different architectures by teams of only a handful of people. That's not the same as a ISA migration, but the challenges are similar.

The difference between those companies and hyperion is, IMO and not wanting to start a flame war..... talent.

Last edited by Aslak3 on 01-Jun-2016 at 08:10 PM.

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eliyahu 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 20:50:55
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1899
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Aslak3

Quote:
That's a lame answer though. Amiga Corp had only 42 people working for it when it was sold to C=. NeXT had only about 500 people working for it and produced the ground work for OS X, server platforms, plus multiple desktop systems, all done in house AFAIK.

Whole OSes have been ported to different architectures by teams of only a handful of people. That's not the same as a ISA migration, but the challenges are similar.

The difference between those companies and hyperion is, IMO and not wanting to start a flame war..... talent.

those people were full time developers, and well paid. the people working on AOS4 are, for the most part, volunteers who do what they can when they can. and those volunteers have done quite a lot over the years.

in any case it's out of our hands. neither you nor i have any influence over hyperion's future directions, business plans, or financials. i only wish them the best and hope that things improve. and, when they do, and if i'm happy with the result, then i support them by purchasing and using their products.

anyway -- i'll stop posting to this thread now.

-- eliyahu

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g01df1sh 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 1-Jun-2016 22:18:29
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1754
From: UK

@eliyahu

As they say dont knock it untill you have tried it. Maybe they will surprise us all and release OS4.2 with multi core. Stranger things have happened.

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Tomppeli 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 2-Jun-2016 0:25:13
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1646
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

Quote:
Whole OSes have been ported to different architectures by teams of only a handful of people. That's not the same as a ISA migration, but the challenges are similar.

The difference between those companies and hyperion is, IMO and not wanting to start a flame war..... talent.


Quote:
those people were full time developers, and well paid. the people working on AOS4 are, for the most part, volunteers who do what they can when they can. and those volunteers have done quite a lot over the years.

in any case it's out of our hands. neither you nor i have any influence over hyperion's future directions, business plans, or financials.


It's exactly how eliyahu says. I'll give the community a simple task to think:

Let's say one programming task, be it porting software from an alien platform or writing it from scratch, takes 100 hours to finish. An employee under salary has usually 40 hours per week. 100 divided by 40 = 2,5 weeks. 10 employees have 10 times 40 hours = 400 hours per week. 100 / 400 = 1/4 week = approx. 1 day (5 work days per week). A hobbyist, having another job to make living, being able to give 2 hours per week for that project means 100 / 2 = 50 weeks which is almost a whole year. So to get the job finished is 1 day, 2 weeks or one whole year depending on how much money you can spend. 1 day, 2 more weeks or a year !

Let's think if the job takes 1000 hours. 12 days, 25 weeks or 10 years to get it finished.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Is the pre-order for X5000 going to start?
Posted on 2-Jun-2016 12:50:39
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1330
From: CRO

@Tomppeli

AROS and MorphOS have been constrained by the same lack of resources as OS4, yet compare just how far AROS or MOS came in the last 6-7 years.
Hyperion is just useless at anything but making legal threats and grandiose announcements and hints that usually turn out to be worthless. That's about 90% of their work lately.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 02-Jun-2016 at 12:51 PM.

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