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   /  Classic Amiga Software
      /  Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 24-May-2018 17:19:21
#341 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@kolla

Quote:
What is so different today than... 15 years ago?


Well, for one the slow steady shift from a linear model to one that truly facilitates multi-tasking.
First with SMP, and now with interconnected neural nodes.

Would you like some references for that?
I just received some brilliant ones from Bill Buck yesterday.
Definitely someone who believes that things evolve and change.

You stay on top of it or you lose, similar to how we lost to inferior Wintel platforms originally.

And one of the reasons I often favor the underdog. Someone always comes along to knock the King off the hill.

Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 08:37 PM.

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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 24-May-2018 17:29:58
#342 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@Lou

Quote:
The king is dead. Long live the king.


If you are going to make a reference to the dead, then the line is "Here's to the King, baby",and its voiced by Bruce Campbell.

Who, btw, Campbell has my vote for spokesperson for a reinvigorated Amiga endeavor.

Either him or Christopher Walken, and he's a little too creepy. When I think of him, I'm reminded of an SNL skit about "Stalkers Anonomous" where he refers his his ex only as "bitch" and describes running running down the street from his ex's home after being found in the bushes outside yelling "Bitch must die, bitch must die...".

And then commenting that "The police probably wouldn't have caught me except for the fact that I was completely naked".

That is even edgier than Campbell, laughing manically while he cuts off his own right hand with a chainsaw in "Evil Dead 2".

"Who's laughing NOW?"

Campbell, that could be amusing. Walken? That would be more like "Here's your new computer, an Amiga, BITCH!", "What?", "You got a problem with that?".

Last edited by arthoropod on 25-May-2018 at 01:00 AM.
Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 08:35 PM.
Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 06:40 PM.
Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 05:36 PM.
Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 05:31 PM.

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Kotler 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 24-May-2018 21:41:54
#343 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-May-2005
Posts: 252
From: Sweden

@Lou

It seems the name change from ApolloOS didn't go too well. Apparently, it's named 'Coffin' because a vampire and a coffin go hand in hand. There's no 'OS' in the title, but everyone thinks it does.

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Karlos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 3:19:07
#344 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Beans

Quote:

So...why don't you just stop playing games?
Participating in and encouraging in illegal activity is still illegal activity, so your justifications of this behavior are just so much idiocy.


Exactly! I mean it would be like me asking someone for a copy of 3.9 for my A2000 because I didn't have one already. I mean, if I had an A2000 that is.

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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 4:03:52
#345 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@Karlos

Interesting quote, and extrapolation, Karlos.
I'm no longer sure what my opinions are on this.

Cloanto's "preservation mode" is just a means of producing revenue.
And Hyperion's "update" could be viewed as simply an attempt to reinforce their distribution rights for the OS.

Oddly, no one seems upset over the "free" distribution of Kickstart and Workbench 1.3 with the Hyperion distribution .

The OS3.1 API has been recreated or incorporated as a part of all NG OS'.

Maybe it would have been better to donate 3.1 to the community, if the point really was preservation and not just profit.

And many of the modules in 3.5 (and more in 3.9) are unlicensable, although CDs of both those are still available.

And with no method of copy protection or limitations on how many machines a copy of Amiga OS can be used with, any method to attempt to prevent free trading and exchange of the OS isn't going to work.

Then there are the really borderline products like Amiga XL and Amithlon, they might not have been legal when original produced and they are still freely exchanged.

The entire topic leads in two directions, first to moralizing over the "piracy" of an IP, and second to a realization that the original vendor never built anything into the OS to prevent it.

So what can you do? All legacy Amigas were supplied with an OS. We are now building new hardware that can run that software. Whether or not each individual that build one of these systems purchases a new copy of the OS in the end is up to their own personal inclinations, it's not something that can be forced on them.

Perhaps that is the best reason for Hyperion to attempt to improve OS3.1 or Cloanto to build something similar to OS3.9. (In OS 3.x). To give those that choose to buy them an better product than the original. To give them a reason to buy it.

Last edited by arthoropod on 25-May-2018 at 02:25 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 8:41:51
#346 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

Lol, obvious sock puppet is obvious

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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 13:27:38
#347 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@Karlos

Hmm. too obtuse for me to interpret.
Besides I frequently don't wear socks.

But then you are a "super user", what ever tf that is.

Maybe I just need to learn a whole new lingo/dialect.

Give me two weeks.

Althoug, hmm, "sock puppet", like two of the biggest Amiga related sites being owned by Aeon/Amigakit and and having a vested interest in presenting those companies in a favorable light?

Last edited by arthoropod on 25-May-2018 at 02:06 PM.
Last edited by arthoropod on 25-May-2018 at 01:28 PM.

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Leo 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 14:18:13
#348 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

The OS3.1 API has been recreated or incorporated as a part of all NG OS'.

Maybe it would have been better to donate 3.1 to the community, if the point really was preservation and not just profit.

+1

If only it wasn't about profit, money, profit, money...

_________________
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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 14:22:44
#349 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@Leo

For us it isn't, and I don't think Trevor's primarily mission is to turn a profit, most developers make very little money at all.

But yes, business enterprises exist to earn a profit.
That is about money, and it is a primary concern, otherwise its not a job, its a hobby.

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Lou 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 15:33:22
#350 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4027
From: Rhode Island

Looking at patent and copyright law, like I said - you could recreate and rebrand something and call it compatible and it's legal.

Hyperion can release Hyperion OS 3.1.4 and call it compatible with Amiga OS 3.1
Cloanto can release Cloanto OS 1.0 and call it compatible with Amiga OS 3.1

Fighting over a name is stupid. Zero f's will be given by me.

Back in the day, you got the OS included with your hardware.
Later on, you purchased a newer version of the OS ... which was included with newer versions of the hardware if you were still on old hardware. What's an Amiga, is it the hardware or the OS? If it's the OS then what about games that boot directly from floppy?

Workbench was the OS for the Amiga hardware. Kickstart is the ROM that came with that hardware.
Amiga OS X.y is a product that bundles libraries written by third parties.

In the end, something is either compatible with Amiga 68K hardware or not. I don't care what it's called.

Better to just make a consortium to guide the direction of future enhancements and facilitate a way to pay developers for it...

Back when I purchased 3.1 for my SX-1 equipped CD32, I'd get games, etc on CD or other software from magazines on CD. I'd always look at the files on the CD. Many times they included newer versions of libraries that came with 3.1 ... This includes real CD32 games. So I'd check the versions and overwrite those libraries from CD onto my hard drive if they were a higher version. So in the end, was I running 3.1.1? 3.1, 3.5, 3.9, they are just labels. They mean nothing. Either the libraries a piece of software needs to run exist already on HDD or they supply them.

There isn't going to be a Windows 11. Windows 10 is it and it was just be continually enhance. In this case, Microsoft is the sole member of the consortium that defines the standard...however that standard will constantly change. Same should come of 3.1 ...

Last edited by Lou on 25-May-2018 at 04:03 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 20:38:37
#351 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@arthoropod

It's an account, Jim, but not as we know it.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 21:48:50
#352 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@arthoropod

It's an account, Jim, but not as we know it.


he has been doing that for years not facing any complaints or consequences. does it matter to anyone else than we old farts, who recognize a guy in an instant? its only a sign that the sites as aw.net have become, what moobunny once was, and what we would otherwise lack now, which is fine.

Last edited by wawa on 25-May-2018 at 09:49 PM.

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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 25-May-2018 22:47:03
#353 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@wawa

Because I contacted him like I said I did, jackhole.

And the Amiga.org registration remains the same because I used a very old password linked to my ex-wife (the same password I now use here, and have always used on MorphZone).

Also sorry for the silly sounding neo-curse word, because I'm bound be the terms of agreement, and DO try to abide by them, and I'm not allowed to be ruder (and even this post might face censorship, because its completely off topic)

And Karlos, I liked that Star-Trek reference.

If the sysop here wants to restore my access the old account I'll use it, or better yet, why don't I just drop this one and ask for everything to be canceled and just post under my real name.

Like Andre always has. I respect that move.

And besides, a few people in the community have known me for a really long time.

BTW - Karlos and I exchanged PMs where he provide me links to some great Linux code years ago.

You now the most common OS in the world (since its not just found in PCs, but also in servers and super computers), that is dropping big endian support?

Which we need to consider to evolve.

I mean seriously, what IS your plan?
Gunnar's going to build you an FPGA based enhanced 68K cpu that will allow the 68K to have parity with slightly more modern ISAs?
AND produce enhancements to AGA that will allow it to perform as well as a modern gpu?

Do any of you have an idea what is needed to push a cpu higher?
Lengthened instruction pipelines, bigger caches (often multiple levels of caches), and accurate branch prediction (that being crucial to gain advantage for all the former).

Think Gunnar can come up with branch prediction algorithms that are anywhere near as efficient as the big players?

That Gunnar can create an enhanced VDP that beats the AMD and Nvidia gpus that we are already using with NG?

Oh yeah, this IS the community where many placed their faith in Bill McEwen, so I'm sure you do.

Even Tabor isn't as dumb a hope as these multiple forms of hyperbole.

Again, Vampire can and will continue to outperform old hardware with its roots in the '80s.

But that's not too surprising, what is is that you think it can be pushed to levels providing parity with hardware that runs at about a GHz or above (sometimes a LOT above).

Or that a small community of hobbyist will resurrect an old and fondly regarded ISA.

Hey, even NG users realize that their community's endeavors are limited to a hobbyist scale, they aren't delusional.

Again, 68K died, PPC is dying, and if we don't embraced alternate little endian ISAs (like ARM), one day we'll all be using Intel based hardware.

Last edited by arthoropod on 25-May-2018 at 10:48 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 26-May-2018 2:27:10
#354 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@arthoropod

Everyone forgets their credentials on forums they infrequently use from time to time and maybe they're associated with a defunct email address you no longer have. It happens. But you've posted as Beans in this (relatively recent) thread alone. If you are going to sock puppet, at least make an effort to come across as a different persona

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IntuitionAmiga 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 26-May-2018 2:40:24
#355 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Sep-2013
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@Beans

Quote:

So...why don't you just stop playing games?
Participating in and encouraging in illegal activity is still illegal activity, so your justifications of this behavior are just so much idiocy.


Exactly! I mean it would be like me asking someone for a copy of 3.9 for my A2000 because I didn't have one already. I mean, if I had an A2000 that is.


Are you asking me to send you an archive of a fully configured OS3.9 install to put on your A2000 Karlos?

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Karlos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 26-May-2018 2:41:54
#356 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@IntuitionAmiga

Phwoarr, thanks. Got a spare A2000 to put it on as well?

No wait, that'd be wrong, right? Besides I have legitimate copies of 2.05, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5, 3.9, 4.0 and 4.1. I guess I'm good, thanks.

Last edited by Karlos on 26-May-2018 at 02:44 AM.

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IntuitionAmiga 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 26-May-2018 2:44:04
#357 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Sep-2013
Posts: 118
From: Unknown

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@IntuitionAmiga

Phwoarr, thanks. Got a spare A2000 to put it on as well?


Might be able to get you one from Delaware.

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QuikSanz 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 26-May-2018 4:10:29
#358 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1112
From: Surf City - Huntington Beach, Ca.

@Karlos,



Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@Beans

[quote]Exactly! I mean it would be like me asking someone for a copy of 3.9 for my A2000 because I didn't have one already. I mean, if I had an A2000 that is.


The proper way is for an install script tat says "please insert original disk x".

Chris

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arthoropod 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 27-May-2018 15:39:09
#359 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2018
Posts: 70
From: Gotham

@Karlos

That would be ...odd, besides, I'm not trying to hide from anyone.
Further, I think the tone of my messages as the current resident curmudgeon would give me away.

You guys might be able to send an email for the "beans" directed to the address linked to that, and I could ask IT to let me have access to that account again.

But I can't remember if that was tied to jigou37945@wildcats.wilmu.edu or jamesigou@wilmu.edu (or if that last one had an "r" in the middle of that name.

Either way I'm still James "Iggy" Igou. Former manager of Delmar Electronics.
Developer of the ET4000 drivers for Microware's OS9 68K OS.

Supplier of a few hobbyist oriented boards that use either 6809, 6309, or 68HC000 cpus (often matched with Yamaha V9958 VDPs, I did play with the V9990 VDP, but sourcing those has become difficult).

One of the few of you (probably) that has had recent contact with both Bill Buck and Ben Hermana (and previous contact with Paul Gentle and Trevor Dickenson).

Supporter of both the PowerPC and a shift to a newer little median ISA.
And still more productive than many of you.

Now Karlos, IF you had restored the first account...

Either way, I think asking that this is one be closed, would be best especially if I can just get JIgou. It would simplify things.

Because I can document what I've done. And don't care to hide behind an alias.

And sooner or later, if you want to colaborate, you need to ID yourself anyway.

And "sock puppet"? Considering what some of the community probably does will their socks (while still living in their parent's basements)..I don't want to think about it.

Last edited by arthoropod on 27-May-2018 at 03:42 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 27-May-2018 16:52:27
#360 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@arthoropod

You're talking as if I'm a moderator here. I'm not. Ask one of the mods to merge your accounts and assign them to an email address you can actually use.

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