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   /  Classic Amiga Software
      /  Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
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wawa 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 14:43:13
#681 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@AmeegaGuy

looks a bit too much like ebay or toys4us. id go for rainbow scheme as the checkmark was, if you will.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 14:44:19
#682 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@QuikSanz

[quote]Hyperion is the only one venturing down this path /quote]

not really, there are people who put some work into aros 68k.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 14:53:04
#683 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:
Companies commonly modernize or even fully redesign their logos, without losing reference to, or identity of, their product(s).


especially companies defunct for decades and serving an audience of individualists that all know better and are able to deliver five opinions already on part of two individuals.

Quote:
I don't see any other reason why someone would like to stick with the checkmark logo. It's too gaudy, which makes it difficult to combine with other graphic material. At the same time it doesn't work all too well in black-and-white print,


you must be joking, check mark is more difficult to combine with other printed material in black an white than a chequered sphere?

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 15:52:00
#684 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@Rob

Quote:
First was licensing 3.1 ROMs to Amigaki[


No.
First, before the ink was barely dry on the 2009 settlement was the 2010 "perceived" breach episode of licensing 1.3 for emulation, which Cloanto clearly believed was their domain....as does everyone else except Hyperion obviously.

#6

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matthey 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 16:35:40
#685 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 657
From: Kansas

Quote:

Quote:

BigD wrote:
If Hyperion lose against the Amiga parties then I expect A-EON to sue them too for lost earnings and needlessly hampering their joint venture selling OS4.X hardware.

Rob wrote:
I don't think there would be reasonable grounds upon which to sue and why sour the possibility of negotiating a mutually beneficial deal regarding the OS and branding.


I believe BigD was talking about A-Eon suing Hyperion for jeopardizing their PPC/AmigaOS 4 license by breaching their license with 68k/AmigaOS 3.1.4 (not about A-Eon suing Itec). If Hyperion loses the court case, they would likely have to pay court and lawyer costs of Itec and friends, give up all AmigaOS 3.1.4 profits and probably would not be able to sell any Amiga branded or licensed products. This would leave them more straddled with debt and really not much reason to continue as a business. This is also a good reason why A-Eon would not be interested in suing. You can't get blood from a rock (or turnip).

Trevor Dickinson probably owns stock in Hyperion (likely acquired during the near bankruptcy of Hyperion). It is possible he has control of Hyperion by owning a majority of the stock. I was banned from Amiga.org for libel when I suggested it was possible (my last post there as Eliyahu was more likely guilty of libel against me as I said nothing definite). There is now some evidence that Trevor owns Hyperion stock in the Cloanto-Hyperion meeting notes from Neuss, Germany October 29th 2017.

"I could see that the meeting table was attended (counterclockwise) by Mike Battilana (Cloanto CEO, co-founder and shareholder), Trevor Dickinson (A-EON cofounder and shareholder, and Hyperion shareholder and lender), Timothy De Groote (Hyperion CEO, shareholder and lender), Marcel Franquinet (Amiga 30/Amsterdam organizer), Dave Haynie (former Commodore/Amiga engineer) and Ben Hermans (Hyperion ex-CEO, co-founder, shareholder, lender and attorney)."

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1N_2xr1HEiL7tvuSZfwFWdO3t9lUxBKfu/edit

It is generally unproductive to have businesses you own stock in sue each other. The lawyers are the only people who benefit. It is bad enough that these businesses are suing each other for such a small market.

Quote:

Rob wrote:
I don't know why you are placing so much emphasis on 3.14. The is just the latest in a series of actions by Hyperion that may or may not have breached the terms of the settlement agreement.
First was licensing 3.1 ROMs to Amigakit, second was licensing OS and ROMs 1.3, 2.04 and 3.1 to Individual Computers to bundle with accelerators and IDE boards and third was selling 3.1 as a digital download.


This was all for the 68k Amiga retro market. The PPC Amiga desktop market was likely unprofitable.

Quote:

Quote:

BigD wrote:
look forward to the interview with Ben, Thomas and Olaf in 5 years time when there is nothing but ash and all that is left is Itec to sign for a mini-A500 Classic stocking filler license


Rob wrote:
It's funny that you mention a retro style console. It has been my opinion for some time that such a product would be key to generating brand recognition and hype around the Amiga platform. If A-EON were legally able to put such a product on the market then it would also be a major cash cow for them which could be funneled into the PPC NG platform.

I have a whole plan in my head of what would be required to exploit this idea to it's fullest but since I have neither the money or the requisite licenses then I'll spare you the finer details.


I question the logic of taking profits from successful products to subsidize unsuccessful products. It may be better to exit low profit markets unless the reasons for poor performance are cyclical. While POWER (PPC is dead) could give a high end Amiga, the AmigaOS is not competitive for important features like security, SMP and 64 bit addressing which would likely break compatibility. The AmigaOS is more competitive for retro, hobbyist and embedded markets. This is also where the 68k is more appealing and competitive but requires low cost mass produced custom hardware to avoid a deteriorating emulation only market or leaving Amiga users behind by moving to a new architecture. The Amiga does not need hype but affordable products which can expand the user base and restart development for the Amiga. A retro console would be great but I would create it to be much more versatile even if marketed as a console like Jay Miner had the foresight to provide a few more features for the Hi-Toro Lorraine console.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 16:54:19
#686 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@matthey

Quote:
Trevor Dickinson probably owns stock in Hyperion (likely acquired during the near bankruptcy of Hyperion). It is possible he has control of Hyperion by owning a majority of the stock.


So you never questioned what this post meant in that context?

former managing partner and signer of the settlement agreement

#6

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 17:30:44
#687 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4406
From: Portsmouth England

@wawa

Quote:

you must be joking, check mark is more difficult to combine with other printed material in black an white than a chequered sphere?


Clearly, a rainbow checkmark renders less well in black and white than a two colour checkered boing ball. Even in grey scale it would be clumsey.

I'm not so sure whith modern printing that the black and white issue is much of deal these days though.

Also for the classic market, the checkmark logo clearly has quite some notalgia importance.

Last edited by broadblues on 18-Nov-2018 at 05:31 PM.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 17:45:46
#688 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@broadblues

not a bad look

#6

Last edited by number6 on 18-Nov-2018 at 05:55 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 17:56:38
#689 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4406
From: Portsmouth England

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@broadblues

not a bad look

#6


That link just redirects to the general search form for me.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 17:59:32
#690 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@broadblues

My fault. Bad paste. Try again.

#6

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 18:00:33
#691 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4406
From: Portsmouth England

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@matthey

Quote:
Trevor Dickinson probably owns stock in Hyperion (likely acquired during the near bankruptcy of Hyperion). It is possible he has control of Hyperion by owning a majority of the stock.


So you never questioned what this post meant in that context?

former managing partner and signer of the settlement agreement

#6


Not completely sure what you trying to say to matthey there, but matthey's extrapolation from possible share holder to control interest doesn't to take much account of how the various comopanies interact in the real world.

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 18:05:59
#692 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4406
From: Portsmouth England

@number6

Erm yes so boing ball works in black and white, that was my point I think. Curious owner of that particular mark!

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 18:09:37
#693 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@broadblues

Quote:
Not completely sure what you trying to say to matthey there,


Sorry.
It's just one of many exchanges between the former and present managing partner (at the time of posting) that show a clear disagreement about who has/had the power. Hence the phrase "take over".
I've mentioned before that Ben would use the phrase "major shareholder" and not "majority shareholder". Maybe that clarifies?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 18-Nov-2018 at 06:11 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 19:37:34
#694 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 657
From: Kansas

Quote:

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Trevor Dickinson probably owns stock in Hyperion (likely acquired during the near bankruptcy of Hyperion). It is possible he has control of Hyperion by owning a majority of the stock.


number6 wrote:
So you never questioned what this post meant in that context?

former managing partner and signer of the settlement agreement


I understand what it could mean but I would rather not make assumptions. It was BigD who was making many assumptions while I said nothing definitive. It is not my intention to spread disinformation or misinformation but rather to open some people's narrow vision of what is possible including conflicts of interest and grey areas. I have no inside information.

Quote:

number6 wrote:
It's just one of many exchanges between the former and present managing partner (at the time of posting) that show a clear disagreement about who has/had the power. Hence the phrase "take over".
I've mentioned before that Ben would use the phrase "major shareholder" and not "majority shareholder". Maybe that clarifies?


The conversation is interesting but you may be reading more into it than exists. By the way, a majority owner is a major shareholder while the opposite is not necessarily true. At one time, I thought Trevor would have demanded majority ownership to keep Hyperion out of bankruptcy. The Hyperion shareholders would have had the choice of losing nearly everything in a bankruptcy, giving majority ownership to Trevor if he asked for it or possibly look for another source of funding (maybe illegal after being found bankrupt if the right to do business is lost). If Trevor had majority ownership, I would expect he would have done more to fix this mess by now. Mike Battilana was supposedly his friend and I don't think he has been treated fairly.

Some people don't seem to understand the power of majority ownership. A majority owner can call for a shareholder meeting and make any legal changes to the business. This includes changing the directors, officers, articles of incorporation and even forcing other shareholders to sell out. Nobody likes a ruthless totalitarian but sometimes it is necessary to get rid of bad apples before the whole basket rots. Wielding majority power fairly and when needed will gain respect as a leader.

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 20:04:08
#695 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 879
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:
I just wish all the fighting could stop somehow and the focus would switch to releasing new exciting Amiga products.


That's a noble outcome but at this point I've grown weary of all of the parties involved.

At a certain point, the squabbling isn't the real problem - it's the people involved.

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 20:08:59
#696 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 879
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
There was me thinking that they needed the cash injection...


Hyperion is already buried in depth so how much revenue are we realistically looking at here? A few thousand dollars perhaps?

Ben can keep this litigation going for years. The whole exercise is a circle jerk.

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 20:12:55
#697 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 879
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:
It has been my opinion for some time that such a product would be key to generating brand recognition and hype around the Amiga platform. If A-EON were legally able to put such a product on the market then it would also be a major cash cow for the...


It won't be long before the Vampire will make this a possibility, but the cost will have to come down significantly.

The issue is the licensing.

Quote:
which could be funneled into the PPC NG platform


That may have made sense 15 years ago but PPC is dead.

It's time to move on and forward.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 18-Nov-2018 22:27:33
#698 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@thread

From Amigaonthelake:

Quote:
AmigaOS3.1.4
The Belgium post office was on strike but that has ended, but caused lots of problems. We are ready to ship AmigaOS3.1.4 we just have to hold for the last 1/2 then we are good. ETA 11/26/18 - 11/27/18, when we will have the last 1/2 and then we will ship.
Sorry this is way out or our control.

Rest assured that you order will be fulfilled.


Source

#6

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QuikSanz 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 19-Nov-2018 3:01:59
#699 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1112
From: Surf City - Huntington Beach, Ca.

@Thread,

So what exactly is in the ROM's? Is there a version list that shows the difference from 3.1 ROM's?

Chris

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion release "official" (pirate?) AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates
Posted on 19-Nov-2018 15:29:05
#700 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1418
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ne_one

Vampire doesn't help much, really. People seriously overestimate what Apollo Core is capable of, we are talking about systems that are not even a magnitude faster than 060, and quickly cost a lot more than what it's worth if you want something faster. And the OS itself is still the largest obstacle for software development.

Last edited by kolla on 19-Nov-2018 at 03:29 PM.

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